So I'm not the only one who thinks that woman's face resembles the Statue of Liberty?  Good. About that "Russian Church" (presumably, St. Basil's in the Kremlin in Moscow).  There's a famous restaurant, the Russian Tea Room, in NYC, next door to Carnegie Hall.

I am pretty sure that most of us agree that the woman's face is that of The Statue of Liberty: hxxp://www.cr.nps.gov/worldheritage/libface.gif If this were the case, NY would be the obvious location, right?  Another confirmer can be seen in the bird flying over the lady.  The bird's head comes from the gargoyles on the Chrysler Building in NY: hxxp://www.allposters.com/images/35/017_PP0037.jpg Also, (I'm sorry I dont have my notes with me) a fellow hunter found a very similar match to the blue building sillouette as a church or synagogue in NY....not sure which one it was though. So, it does look as if this P is leading us to somewhere in The Big Apple, but where?  I'm not even sure if any of the hunters has matched a V (verse) to this P.  Anyone.....?

Ok, we seem to agree on Chrysler Bldg gargoyle head & Statue of Liberty face.  The blue church may be St Nicholas Orthodox church (not far from Chrysler Bldg). Now, the clock may just be there to match the month/gem/flower...but what about the others?  Bottom left with the red rectangle?....a door?, Washington Arch, etc...? A smooth maroon panel above a smooth yellow panel means..? The rest of the panels look similar to colorblind tests.  hxxp://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.htmlanyone see any numbers in there?

Unknown: Bottom left with the red rectangle?....a door?, Washington Arch, etc...? Unknown: The rest of the panels look similar to colorblind tests.  anyone see any numbers in there? How about the silhouette of the World Trade Center? I agree with you about the colorblind test.  It could also be one of those "secret decoder" things I used to have as a kid --- if you put an opaque colored lens over it, it may reveal something.

It does kind of look like "a" trade center.  Maybe they thought if they put both up it would be too easy. Ah yes, one of those silly decoder things one would find in cereal boxes.  I've dug around my house looking for anything clear and red (like acytate) but to no avail.  I did, however; find a clear purple ruler.  When placed over the red spotted panel, the purple dots were brought out a little better but I could not make out anything.  I think if you were to use red, it would make it real noticeable.

I tried red (a little Chloraseptic in the bottom of a glass) but saw nothing.  However, I'm a little color-blind, so I may be the wrong person to ask. Does anyone (with good color vision) have one of those 3-D glasses with a red and a blue lens?  Try each of them.

This pic appears to fall under the following theme: November (11 o'clock? hard to tell) Topaz? (there's blue topaz, but the poem indicates a gold color!!!) Chrysanthemum Russian Theme (russian orthodox church!) "A Topaz is the Russian prize: The royal sunstone, frozen fire."

I promise to use some digital magic and apply a color filter, then post a higher res version of the resulting blob so that nobody needs 3D glasses. Gimme a little time and I will try to scan it this weekend.

Unknown: The blue church may be St Nicholas Orthodox church (not far from Chrysler Bldg). There may be more than one in NYC, but other than the Russian theme and the possibility that it was next to WTC (and was destroyed along with it)--and our gray monolith picture is next to the blue church in the painting--I don't spot any visual correlation. hxxp://www.wirednewyork.com/churches/st ... efault.htm If the casque was buried next to or near the WTC, I think it is sad but safe to say that we will never find it. We can contact the publisher if we have a good guess, of course. However, I did find this on a listing of NYC area cathedrals: "Cathedral of the Resurrection, 228 N 12th St., Brooklyn, (Russian Orthodox Outside Russia) Dramatic and detailed recreation of a Russian Church, onion domes and all." No photo. Argh. Unrelated: I feel that the hemline of her dress is in a specific shape. It does not quite match the lower tip of Manhattan, though it might match the outline of another land mass. I'm thinkin'. I used to live in Brooklyn so I would really like to see this one solved.

Howdy all, I haven't looked at this one too much... Definitely the Statue of Liberty face, I like the bird head/ gargoyle correlation.... and the color blind panels... excellent! I had allway assumed the panels layout would be a match to a window panel very close to the casque location, round top panels and square lower panels, for some reason the double line on the bottom made me think that...

I did the red filter thing digitally (red layer, 50% opacity)--no dice. I cannot discern an image. But I do agree that it looks like colorblind tests. Maybe it's simply a reference to colorblind tests, or the answer involves the name of the person who invented those tests? My wife saw those and said it reminded her of the artwork in the lobby of Lincoln Center, but after taking a peek at the photos in the Met, we both now think it's not a factor.

Thanks to Dan's high res pics, I was able to look at this pic in more detail.  In the middle of the ocean appears to be the number 74 with an X below it --- it is very faint, written in the white part of the ocean.  Am I just seeing things?  Anyone see anything else?  I would think that the ocean, which takes up half the picture, would hold a couple of clues.  If you delude yourself enough  ;) you can see a large letter "N' written in white foam on the blue ocean.  Anyone else see that? I can't see any clue in the colored dots at the top of the picture.  I am a short drive from New York, so if anyone can tell me where to look, I'll be happy to go there.

Egbert, if you are still around, I have a proposed solution for one of the verses for New York. It is a bit of a stretch and I have to make guesses about the area as I can not find anything to show me a picture of the area. The majority of the solution will have to come from being at the place, but I did come up with a possible starting point.Or if there is anyone else who wants to check out the New York area, I will gladly post my idea in hopes that I may, in some way be right...Thanks to all

Unknown: Thanks to Dan's high res pics, I was able to look at this pic in more detail.  In the middle of the ocean appears to be the number 74 with an X below it --- it is very faint, written in the white part of the ocean.  Am I just seeing things?  Anyone see anything else?  I would think that the ocean, which takes up half the picture, would hold a couple of clues.  If you delude yourself enough  ;) you can see a large letter "N' written in white foam on the blue ocean.  Anyone else see that? Thanks to Fox, the 74 can now be said to apply to the latitude/longitude of New York City.  Now all we need is a 40 or 41.  Anyone care to count the dots?

Unknown: Egbert, if you are still around, I have a proposed solution for one of the verses for New York. It is a bit of a stretch and I have to make guesses about the area as I can not find anything to show me a picture of the area. The majority of the solution will have to come from being at the place, but I did come up with a possible starting point.Or if there is anyone else who wants to check out the New York area, I will gladly post my idea in hopes that I may, in some way be right...Thanks to all I'm in the New York area and plan to be in Manhattan on Saturday.  Whatcha got?

Hmmm.  I must have missed rewand's message.  My workplace is 20 minutes from NYC, so I can go there any time, if Shawn isn't able to find anything.

Unknown: "Cathedral of the Resurrection, 228 N 12th St., Brooklyn, (Russian Orthodox Outside Russia) Dramatic and detailed recreation of a Russian Church, onion domes and all." No photo. Argh. I did find a photo of this church. hxxp://maniacalrage.net/photos/2004/04/ ... dex_13.php

Hi all, I am new to this board and am hoping to join in the hunt. I do not have a book yet but it should be arriving soon. In the mean time I came across this site which I thought might help some of you. If you scroll down there is a place to get lots of photos of things in NYC. I do live just outside the city and my Husband works there everyday so if you have any questions I would be more than happy to help. hxxp://www.vacationidea.com/new_york_ci ... lery7.html

Unknown: I think the statue of liberty face is one clue and the body is another. yes, that is definitely not Lady Liberties garb.  How about this as a possible match? hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about/pa ... thesda.jpg I cant find a real good, clear close up but I believe the robe to be quite similar.  Also, read this little blurb about her and see if something stands out: hxxp://www.centralpark2000.com/database ... ntain.html only problem is, I think it may be illegal to dig in the park.

Unknown: I think the statue of liberty face is one clue and the body is another. yes, that is definitely not Lady Liberties garb.  How about this as a possible match? hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about/pa ... thesda.jpg I cant find a real good, clear close up but I believe the robe to be quite similar.  Also, read this little blurb about her and see if something stands out: hxxp://www.centralpark2000.com/database ... ntain.html only problem is, I think it may be illegal to dig in the park .

here is an email from BP to FRSTPRZFA which she forwarded to me concerning a possible casque location in Central Park . ----------------------------------------------------- From: To: Subject: Re: Sorry to bother you. Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:08 PM there is no treasure in central park ---------------------------------------------------- drats, there goes my ideas....looks like we need to turn to other parts/parks of NYC

here is an email from BP to FRSTPRZFA which she forwarded to me concerning a possible casque location in Central Park. ----------------------------------------------------- From: To: Subject: Re: Sorry to bother you. Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:08 PM there is no treasure in central park ---------------------------------------------------- drats, there goes my ideas....looks like we need to turn to other parts/parks of NYC

just a thought based on the GGpark map in pix 1 is it possible the image we all thought was a single World Trade Center tower is actually a map view of North Central Park ?

just a thought based on the GGpark map in pix 1 is it possible the image we all thought was a single World Trade Center tower is actually a map view of North Central Park?

hello again, here goes post 3 i believe that the 3 towers you see in the picture is of ellis island.... look at the pic and tell me what you think hxxp://www.historychannel.com/ellisisland/index2.html Now ellis island has 4 towers, but mainly only 3 are seeable if you travel ship, like if you were an immagrant i am also real excited about the possibility that image 12 goes with verse 8....please read my post on verse 8....i really thought that the casque itslef was on liberty island.....but bpruess shot that down, saying "there is no treasure on liberty island"..... but we are getting close.....read my post on "verse 8" and lemme mnow if it makes sense..... Hoping to help someone get em some treasure your treasure huntin pal from indiana

falcon, I think the confirmers seen in P12 point to NYC and the confirmers seen in P1 are very good matches for GGP.

The eagle head has been associated with the Chrysler building, and the rounded arch (as opposed to a Gothic arch) could be connected to The Cloisters, a museum of medieval art in Fort Tryon Park .  Perhaps the colored spots represent mosaic.  Now, I do not know New York, so you New Yorkers may be able to eliminate my theory as rubbish.  Pic 12 may be connected to verse 5, so I will post the theory there and y'all can scrutinize it. --Johann

The eagle head has been associated with the Chrysler building, and the rounded arch (as opposed to a Gothic arch) could be connected to The Cloisters, a museum of medieval art in Fort Tryon Park.  Perhaps the colored spots represent mosaic.  Now, I do not know New York, so you New Yorkers may be able to eliminate my theory as rubbish.  Pic 12 may be connected to verse 5, so I will post the theory there and y'all can scrutinize it. --Johann

There is another new york in Las Vegas: hxxp://www.wildnatureimages.com/Las%20Vegas%20Strip%203.htm

Ohh, neVar, I think that was great thinking on your part, but I am almost sure that the Vegas NY was not there 20 yrs ago. Can anyone comfirm this?

well, the roller coaster on top of the hotel opened in 1997. I think the hotel opened at that time too. wilhouse hxxp://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/co ... s/express/

I've been lurking on the boards for a while, enjoying the hunt--hope you don't mind if I jump in. I want to propose something a little radical (could be completely wrong, but I thought I'd throw it out here for comment). I wonder if image 12, which we've been assuming to refer to NYC, could actually be paired with verse 10 and referring to Pittsburgh, PA.  Here are my thoughts: The solo rectangle in the left corner looks to me like the US Steel tower (USX tower) in downtown Pgh, which is one of the tallest buildings in the world.  It is dark grey (the "grey giant" of verse 10?).  If you cross the Monongahela river to the south side of Pgh, you find St. John the Baptist Ukranian Catholic church almost literally "in the shadow of the grey giant." (see first link below) hxxp://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/neighborho ... _n223.html Here is another image: hxxp://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/neighborho ... _n221.html The church is not an exact match to the silhouette in I12, but it's pretty close.  Perspective based on where you're standing might also affect the match.  From the photo in the second link, it seems that the stained-glass windows in the church are shaped just like I12. If you start at the church and go about half a mile west on Carson street, passing under the Liberty bridge (a possible alternate explanation for the face of Liberty on the woman in Image 12?) you get to the foot of the Monongahela incline. hxxp://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/i ... llView.jpg The station sign saying Monongahela (after the nearby river, which was named for the native Monongahela Indian culture) could be the "sign nearby" that "speaks of Indies native"  and I can tell you from experience that there is a serious whirring sound from the cables--the incline is really noisy!  "Cars abound" here, definitely. "Carson" (a play on words?) street has lots of auto traffic.  There are railroad tracks and a train station on the other side of the street (train cars) and the incline has cars, too.  If you wanted to get cute, you could say that "cars abound" refers to the incline cars, which are bound to the track. The "arm that extends over the slender path" could be the incline track itself--there are supposedly footpaths that go up Mt. Washington, but I have no idea if there is one near or under the incline.  If you take the incline up, you get to Grandview Ave.  Nearby to the east is Grandview Park .  I haven't been there, so I am not sure if 22 steps ("twice as many east steps as the hour") would get you to from the top of the incline to the park , but it might.  22 steps might also refer to stairs near the bottom or top of the incline. If you are at the top of the incline, on Mt. Washington, you have a view that allows you to "gaze north" (northwest, technically) "toward the isle of B" which would be Brunot Island, in the Ohio river. I don't know who "him of Hard word" would be in this case.  "Hard" makes me think of steel, and Pittsburgh is known as the Steel City.  Perhaps one of the nineteenth-century steel tycoons like Carnegie or Frick?  The area of the city that I'm describing used to be industrial, with iron, steel and glass works. Other random ideas: the three droplets of water in Image 12 could represent Pittsburgh's famous three rivers.  In Verse 10, the "simple roots in rhapsodic man's soil" might refer to the fact that Pittsburgh was the birthplace and childhood home of Oscar Levant, a pianist and actor who was the best friend of George "Rhapsody in Blue" Gershwin.  Levant played himself in the movie "Rhapsody in Blue" and also recorded much of the movie's soundtrack, including the title track.  From Grandview avenue (or park ) you can see all of downtown Pgh, including the Hill district, where Levant grew up.  Maybe there is a plaque or monument? The eagle is the main thing making me question all of this, because I agree that it really does look like the gargoyle on the NYC Chrysler building.  But could it be just an eagle?  The only link I can come up with for my scenario is that the eagle relates to George Washington (as on the quarter-dollar coin, and in general USA symbology) and Mt. Washington is central here.  Kind of weak, though... Would love to hear anybody else's ideas on this.  I thought it was interesting enough to rate a post, but maybe I just have too much time on my hands... --Melanie

I've been lurking on the boards for a while, enjoying the hunt--hope you don't mind if I jump in. I want to propose something a little radical (could be completely wrong, but I thought I'd throw it out here for comment). I wonder if image 12, which we've been assuming to refer to NYC, could actually be paired with verse 10 and referring to Pittsburgh, PA.  Here are my thoughts: The solo rectangle in the left corner looks to me like the US Steel tower (USX tower) in downtown Pgh, which is one of the tallest buildings in the world.  It is dark grey (the "grey giant" of verse 10?).  If you cross the Monongahela river to the south side of Pgh, you find St. John the Baptist Ukranian Catholic church almost literally "in the shadow of the grey giant." (see first link below) hxxp://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/neighborho ... _n223.html Here is another image: hxxp://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/neighborho ... _n221.html The church is not an exact match to the silhouette in I12, but it's pretty close.  Perspective based on where you're standing might also affect the match.  From the photo in the second link, it seems that the stained-glass windows in the church are shaped just like I12. If you start at the church and go about half a mile west on Carson street, passing under the Liberty bridge (a possible alternate explanation for the face of Liberty on the woman in Image 12?) you get to the foot of the Monongahela incline. hxxp://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/i ... llView.jpg The station sign saying Monongahela (after the nearby river, which was named for the native Monongahela Indian culture) could be the "sign nearby" that "speaks of Indies native"  and I can tell you from experience that there is a serious whirring sound from the cables--the incline is really noisy!  "Cars abound" here, definitely. "Carson" (a play on words?) street has lots of auto traffic.  There are railroad tracks and a train station on the other side of the street (train cars) and the incline has cars, too.  If you wanted to get cute, you could say that "cars abound" refers to the incline cars, which are bound to the track. The "arm that extends over the slender path" could be the incline track itself--there are supposedly footpaths that go up Mt. Washington, but I have no idea if there is one near or under the incline.  If you take the incline up, you get to Grandview Ave.  Nearby to the east is Grandview Park.  I haven't been there, so I am not sure if 22 steps ("twice as many east steps as the hour") would get you to from the top of the incline to the park, but it might.  22 steps might also refer to stairs near the bottom or top of the incline. If you are at the top of the incline, on Mt. Washington, you have a view that allows you to "gaze north" (northwest, technically) "toward the isle of B" which would be Brunot Island, in the Ohio river. I don't know who "him of Hard word" would be in this case.  "Hard" makes me think of steel, and Pittsburgh is known as the Steel City.  Perhaps one of the nineteenth-century steel tycoons like Carnegie or Frick?  The area of the city that I'm describing used to be industrial, with iron, steel and glass works. Other random ideas: the three droplets of water in Image 12 could represent Pittsburgh's famous three rivers.  In Verse 10, the "simple roots in rhapsodic man's soil" might refer to the fact that Pittsburgh was the birthplace and childhood home of Oscar Levant, a pianist and actor who was the best friend of George "Rhapsody in Blue" Gershwin.  Levant played himself in the movie "Rhapsody in Blue" and also recorded much of the movie's soundtrack, including the title track.  From Grandview avenue (or park) you can see all of downtown Pgh, including the Hill district, where Levant grew up.  Maybe there is a plaque or monument? The eagle is the main thing making me question all of this, because I agree that it really does look like the gargoyle on the NYC Chrysler building.  But could it be just an eagle?  The only link I can come up with for my scenario is that the eagle relates to George Washington (as on the quarter-dollar coin, and in general USA symbology) and Mt. Washington is central here.  Kind of weak, though... Would love to hear anybody else's ideas on this.  I thought it was interesting enough to rate a post, but maybe I just have too much time on my hands... --Melanie

In regard to the color blindness test/color pebbles possible link: There seem to be two original tests that are still most often used.  The Ishihara test consists of the familiar "hidden" numbers in a field of colored spots.  There are two series of standard plates, 24 and 38 series editions, but eight plates are generally used in diagnosis. The AO-HRR uses the same technique, but most often with a combination of shapes and numbers.  I do not know which was first developed (Ishihara's was originally done with Japanese characters, then later adapted with Arabic numerals). While these panels may be suggesting numbers based on some standard, the AO-HRR was developed by three researchers: Hardy, Rand, and Rittler. It is a longshot, but there could be three close streets or a monument bearing some variation of these names near the treasure site.

I've become rather reliant on finding the latitude/longitude numbers in the image to use as confirmers.  With this image, I have not seen anything that is convincingly a deliberately inserted number.  As a skeptic, I believe you can turn almost any random brushstroke into a number if you are looking for something specific.  Ideally, you see a number jump out and THEN find out what city might correspond to it. (just posting to keep in touch, not contributing anything new this week.)

Melanie! Im with you I think this is too obvious to be NY Your pittsburg links are as strong as any I have read/seen for NY. just remember there is no way of confirming til you actually find a casque...

I know!  Too bad I'm in California...I grew up in Pgh, but haven't been there in years. Any Pittsburghers on the board who could go exploring?

nice ideas Melanie....nothing on these boards is too wacky (take it from the wacky king) To first disagree with Cat (gosh, is this a first lol  ;) ) I think the #74 is quite obvious in the waves.  Now.... The face is of course that of Lady Liberty but your Liberty Bridge find is quite intriguing.  That darn eagle though.  It seems to be a perfect match for the Chrysler gargoyle... unless, is there something "Chrysler" nearby in Pitt? I have always believed V10 to be leading us to Pitt, especially with the Isle of B = Brunot Island.  My only problem was I had it matched w/ P4 since the beginning....low and behold, Sir Egg had to go and ruin that one for me .  But, P4 brings us right back to your points....From early on, I think I would be correct in assuming, everyone here was convinced that P4 was PA (gem in Keystone-state), most leaning towards Philly because of the Lbell (liberty bell) & myself secretly leaning towards Pitt w/ V10.  Now that someone else has found themselves in Pitt with this V, maybe we should do a little more digging and find a P (if not P12..but also could be now) for this casque. Keep the ideas flowing Melanie...no idea is a dumb one (except for some of mine lol )

Is it just me, or does the panes of glass behind the bird (minus the tail feathers) look kinda like the State of Idaho. The building outline just below that looks russian in origin and there is a city in Northern Idaho named Moscow (no foolin) It is right next to the Clearwater Mountains (pretty water below), and slightly north is a city called Spirit Lake (a floating woman) I just thought I'd throw my  2 cents in..

Where are the numbers and what are they?  I'm not doubting you; I just can't see them. --Johann

Just noticed a 15 in the wave if that helps anybody. look about dead center in the white froth of the wave you will first see 4 verticle dots of water. (white) Thats the 1 Then look to the right just a bit and you will see six dots arranged in a 5 shape. once you spot it its pretty obvious. I think more obvious than the 74 So what does 74 and 15 get you?

oh I have the book and hi rez scans and I can't see any numbers on the bird...

Unknown: So what does 74 and 15 get you? Somewhere in the Caribbean I believe. NYC is 74 & 41(or 40)

The bird isn't an exact match for the chrysler bldg bird hxxp://www.papermodeler.com/images/birds.jpg

I too need to correct myself The 50 on the bird is as plain as day. The 74 is a bit iffy. as it could be 14 74 or 141 or 741... Here are the numbers on the page we've found so far... hxxp://www.papermodeler.com/images/pix12nums.jpg

Theres also a 3 in the bloom of the flower. and although the birds are both hawklike - the beaks don't look anything alike. The one in picture 12 is almost a parrots beak.

I thought the ends of both hands ended in circles. The minute hand is just harder to see. - missing the two, be more specific on the location.

I see what your saying. it almost looks like a 25 I wonder though how much of the really really difficult to see objects we should consider - BP couldn't be sure with print quality changes - if stuff like that would be visible in every book. most of the stuff we know about in the solved puzzles was obvious - not barely visible.

Unknown: most of the stuff we know about in the solved puzzles was obvious - not barely visible. yes, like the Bowman in Grant Park, Lady Liberty's face & the numerous exact matches around the Cleveland Park that Egg located.

Has anyone noticed an elongated A in the water (not the wave)?  Turn the pic so that the right side is at the bottom and look for it in the dark streaks of water. --Johann

possible map match???? the left portion of that half moon window. The one with multi-colored stones.(orange, red, lavendar) possibly Brooklyn. I need to scan the Image to see if it matches. I was looking more in the area of where the Statue of Liberty is. Look at the Lavendar stones as water(Hudson River, Right?) also that one does resemble the Trade center, OR Central Park . (ariel view).

possible map match???? the left portion of that half moon window. The one with multi-colored stones.(orange, red, lavendar) possibly Brooklyn. I need to scan the Image to see if it matches. I was looking more in the area of where the Statue of Liberty is. Look at the Lavendar stones as water(Hudson River, Right?) also that one does resemble the Trade center, OR Central Park. (ariel view).

I have always felt that if this is New York, then it probably represents Brooklyn. The Russian population of New York can be found in Little Odessa, in the south of Brooklyn. A possible park would then be Prospect Park. On the north end of the park is a monument to soldiers and sailor. See a pic here: hxxp://www.the-meltingpot.com/grand_arm ... iption.htm Doesn't the arch look like the arch in the picture?

I have always felt that if this is New York, then it probably represents Brooklyn. The Russian population of New York can be found in Little Odessa, in the south of Brooklyn. A possible park would then be Prospect Park . On the north end of the park is a monument to soldiers and sailor. See a pic here: hxxp://www.the-meltingpot.com/grand_arm ... iption.htm Doesn't the arch look like the arch in the picture?

i'm not sure, but have any of yall thought about a church. When ever i look at this it reminds me of a church.....maybe there is a church near one of you locations... i dont know Doc

I am new to the hunt.  I foud out about it after Egbert found the Cleveland casque as I live in the Cleveland area.  I found the pics and verses and have been pouring over them.  I think your comments about the face in this pic being the Statute of Liberty intriguing.  MY thought for this pic was Tennessee.  I think the outline for the wave is a close match to Tennessee.  Do any of you have any thoughts?? I also have the article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer from Egbert finding the casque.  It has an interesting sidebar detailing some of the cluse in the picture.  If any of you would like to see it let me know.  I am trying to use this solution to find the clues in the other pictures.

I found this collection of photos of Statue of Liberty replica's, labeled according to city.  There are many: troop101.thescouts.com/liberty/

just a simple thought tossed out....Is it possible to see both Lady Liberty and the Chrysler Building from a specific park in NY?  The reason I asked is this.... It seems that all of the visual confirmers in the P that Egg found in Cleveland was right there in the park .  Oh wait,  could you see the upside tower from the park ? Maybe there is one specific image per P that confirms the city, then the rest are near the site.

just a simple thought tossed out....Is it possible to see both Lady Liberty and the Chrysler Building from a specific park in NY?  The reason I asked is this.... It seems that all of the visual confirmers in the P that Egg found in Cleveland was right there in the park.  Oh wait,  could you see the upside tower from the park? Maybe there is one specific image per P that confirms the city, then the rest are near the site.

I really hate pic 8. There is nothing in that pic that I have seen that confirms the city except the lat/long. Everything else seems to point to the zoo. But if you didn't get the city from the lat/long, you'd be nowhere. Except of course the possible outline of southern texas near the djinn. wilhouse

Unknown: just a simple thought tossed out....Is it possible to see both Lady Liberty and the Chrysler Building from a specific park in NY?  The reason I asked is this.... It seems that all of the visual confirmers in the P that Egg found in Cleveland was right there in the park .  Oh wait,  could you see the upside tower from the park ? Maybe there is one specific image per P that confirms the city, then the rest are near the site. I agree with your assesment of the clues in the pics fox.  I am from Cleveland and while I don't believe the Terminal  Tower is visible from the Cultural Gardens (I have not benn there but I know the area) but I think it is a valuable clue to Cleveland.  The map shows Ohio and the Tower (which was the largest building in Cleveland in 1981) tells you that it is Cleveland.  The remaining cluse tell you where in cleveland the casque was located.

Unknown: just a simple thought tossed out....Is it possible to see both Lady Liberty and the Chrysler Building from a specific park in NY?  The reason I asked is this.... It seems that all of the visual confirmers in the P that Egg found in Cleveland was right there in the park.  Oh wait,  could you see the upside tower from the park? Maybe there is one specific image per P that confirms the city, then the rest are near the site. I agree with your assesment of the clues in the pics fox.  I am from Cleveland and while I don't believe the Terminal  Tower is visible from the Cultural Gardens (I have not benn there but I know the area) but I think it is a valuable clue to Cleveland.  The map shows Ohio and the Tower (which was the largest building in Cleveland in 1981) tells you that it is Cleveland.  The remaining cluse tell you where in cleveland the casque was located.

Precisely what I was referring to Tornado...Now, if that is the case, let's look at P12.  I believe it has two very obvious pointers to NYC... 1) Lady Liberty & 2) Chrysler Bldg gargoyle.  If this is true, does it seem logical that one of the two leads us to NYC while the other is nearby?....  Is there a nice large park right next to the C bldg?  I'm sure the big apple would not allow anyone to bury anything on LL's island.  There is also the church to deal with as well as the door/bldg/rectangle & the color blind tests.  Geez, where does that leave us besides having a huge headache?  lol

Precisely what I was referring to Tornado...Now, if that is the case, let's look at P12.  I believe it has two very obvious pointers to NYC... 1) Lady Liberty & 2) Chrysler Bldg gargoyle.  If this is true, does it seem logical that one of the two leads us to NYC while the other is nearby?....  Is there a nice large park right next to the C bldg?  I'm sure the big apple would not allow anyone to bury anything on LL's island.  There is also the church to deal with as well as the door/bldg/rectangle & the color blind tests.  Geez, where does that leave us besides having a huge headache?  lol

You may want to check out my pic 12 & verse 5 theory on the verse 5 thread, May 26.  No one has responded to the idea yet.  It is a possibility, including a park, the Statue and a church.

You may want to check out my pic 12 & verse 5 theory on the verse 5 thread, May 26.  No one has responded to the idea yet.  It is a possibility, including a park , the Statue and a church.

ahhh, I see what you mean johann.  It looks like an idea worth digging into again.  Dont you hate it how good ideas are researched a little only to be buried in the thread and forgotten about?  :P

God call with Pitt, but why would there be waves in the picture if it wasn't near the ocean.  I live in Jersey, but I don't know if you can see the CChrysler Building from Battery park, but you  can see Lady liberty.  Oh wait what about Liberty state park in New jersey?

God call with Pitt, but why would there be waves in the picture if it wasn't near the ocean.  I live in Jersey, but I don't know if you can see the CChrysler Building from Battery park , but you  can see Lady liberty.  Oh wait what about Liberty state park in New jersey?

Unknown: I was just in Battery Park today.  You can't see the Chrysler building from the park.  Too many buildings. But were they all there over 20 years ago?

Unknown: I was just in Battery Park today.  You can't see the Chrysler building from the park .  Too many buildings. But were they all there over 20 years ago?

I just got sucked into this hunt.  The first thing I thought I saw when I looked at Image 12 was a whale in the water.  It starts on the left side and is facing the right.  I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet.  Am I seeing things?

Unknown: i'm not sure, but have any of yall thought about a church. When ever i look at this it reminds me of a church.....maybe there is a church near one of you locations... i dont know Doc Doc: I had the same thought.  It looks like it could be a picture of the Assumption or the Annunciation (not really familiar with Marian images).  Or maybe a female Saint.  If it was a male figure, I'd say the Transfiguration.  Or it could be a late 19th century actress.  Any other ideas? Also, does anyone else think that the bottom of the dress looks like the the coast of either the Bronx or Brooklyn?  I'd try to overlay them, but I'm horrible at graphics work. -Dan

Getting back to "Image 12". I downloaded and viewed and printed the high resolution pictures. The first thing I noticed upon looking at this picture: 1. The top/left window pane with the red/blue/orange/etc/ dots.Immediately what caught my eye is the numeral 8. 2. the top/right window pane with blue and darker to lighter shades of blue....nothing immediatly jumped out at me.But there definately is some sort of pattern there. My thought on the woman and the ocean....She has risen from the ocean and the 3 droplets of water have beaded off of her gown. About the jewel. My take of that is she has released it from her left hand to return back into the water.Whereas she keeps the stemmed flower secured in her right hand. The Cloister "Medieval Castle" I was thinking about with verse #10. I couldn't remember the name of it even though I have been there many times years ago when I used to fgo there in the summer months via bicycle across the GW bridge when I was a yourg teenager. I did my research on that late last night from home, and today I see a mention from a post posted some time ago that mentions The Cloisters Gardens. Another not so significant fact was that Donald Trump had purchased it at one point some years ago.Which is now apart of the Metropolitan Museum. Maybe he still is owner of it.Don't know. Just my observations here. Which I thought would or might spark some more interest into getting ideas thrown out there.

Unknown: .....but bpruess shot that down, saying "there is no treasure on liberty island"..... on 5/6/2004 mrshamrock So that rules out that, but I stll think that battery park is an option. This should be under the verse 10 thread, but i was thinking arm extended might be a mechanical arm, like the one used in a parking garage.

Every day on my walk to school, I would pass Madison Square Park. One day I actually sat down there. The view from the park is:  on East 23rd Street the Flat Iron Bldg...You can see the Chrysler Bldg, and also the Empire State Bldg. 1.Madison Square Park was home to the Statue of Liberty's torch for 6 years to attract attention before the statue was completed. 2.The Chrysler Bldg, is obviously dedicated to the automotive industry: cars abound if we're going with verse 10. (?) Other info: Madison Ave is bordered by 5th and Madison aves., 23rd and 26th streets. There are many statues in the park..one of senator Conkling who froze to death in 1888. If we choose Bryant Park as a possible location: 1.The park contains five statues plus the Josephine Shaw Lowell fountain. Built in 1912 and designed by Charles Adams Platt, this was the first monument dedicated to a woman. Lowell (1843-1905) was a pioneering social reformer. 2.On the east side of the park is the 1911 New York Public Library. 3.In 1884 the square was renamed Bryant Park after William Cullen Bryant, a poet and lawyer. He was one of the most influential advocates for abolition of slavery in the United States and one of the forces behind the creation of Central Park. these are all just thoughts and facts to be considered.

Well, Siskel and I teamed up again and went on a scouting expedition of Manhattan.  I will allow him to fill all of you in on the details --- he has lots of good ideas on Image 12, Verse 10, and New York. However, I would like to present you with my thoughts on that rectangle in Image 12.  I first suggested it was one of the World Trade Center towers, and someone else suggested it was Central Park.  However, now I think it is neither .... take a look at the overhead image of Ellis Island: hxxp://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=11&x=1452&y=11263&z=18&w=1 Since it appears that the immigration of the Faeries are closely tied to the real life immigrants, I think it would be only fitting to have Ellis Island in one of the pics.  So Siskel and I last week took a trip out there, along with other spots in NYC.  I will let him post our findings.  Happy hunting all!

Wow! That is most amazing! Will have to wait until they begin Ellis Island tours again to head there for a scouting/dig? Kudos to you and Siskel! Edit Seems the tours are back on for Ellis Island. Limited tours, but they are on. Did a search and found this. hxxp://www.nycvp.com/statue_of_lib_WalkingTour.htmI took the Statue of Liberty/Ellis Island tour via Liberty State Park in Jersey City,NJ some 15 or so years ago. I didn't know about this hunt at that time.

Look at the shape of the windows inside the "Great Hall" on Ellis Island. Hmmmm., hxxp://www.historychannel.com/ellisisla ... athal1.gif Another with 3 steeples on Ellis Island. You think? hxxp://www.historychannel.com/ellisisla ... ntro_2.gif

guys, there is no way Preiss buried a cask on Ellis Island. I just refuse to believe it. wilhouse

Things may have been "very" different back in 1982.

Here are the photos of Egbert and my recent expedition to Ellis Island and lower Manhattan.  More thoughts and observations to follow. hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/action/share/welcome?i=EeCNWbVi3ZtGWF&open=1&sm=0&sl=0

And now for some thoughts ... First off, congrats to Willhouse on getting the use of a ground penetrating device.  When Egbert and I went out to Cleveland we thought of buying until we found out how expensive they are with little or no resale value.  I did suggest that if everyone on this site chipped in $50 we could buy one and circulate it amongst all the treasure hunters every time someone goes out to dig.  Wasn't sure that a metal detector would be of any value since the casque was ceramic, but discovered the key to have a metal filament in its tip, so even a simple metal detector might prove useful.  Either way, the device you got should prove helpful in your never-ending Houston quest.  If there is any justice in the world, you will find the casque in Herman Park. Now on to Lower Manhattan.  Egbert came across the aerial photo of Ellis Island and it looked too good to be true.  Given the theme of the book, it seemed natural that the center of immigration in this country would have some tie in to the location of a hidden casque.  We started out by taking the ferry from Battery Park and Castle Clinton (the whirring sound in the summer?).  The approach to Ellis Island seemed promising as you can see in the photos as the tops of the great immigration hall look similar to the image that seems to point to some onion shaped domed structure.  As we pulled into the docking area that is a direct match for the rectangle in the picture, we passed points in the water where only three of the tower tops were visible and more closely resembled the illustrated shape in image 12.  Once docked, we were surprised to see the great windows on the central building - arch shaped and similar to the shape containing image 12.  There are three such windows, each one made up of a grid type structure.  In between each such window, at the very top, stands a statue of an eagle.  The face is distinctly similar to the bird illustation in image 12, which is sure to be a statue of some origin, whether it is from the Chrysler building as has been suggested, or here on Ellis Island.  Combined with the face of the Lady Liberty, there seemed to be an awful lot of clues pointing to Ellis Island.  That much said, there are some obvious problems.  Continued ...

Continued ... I agree with Willhouse's earlier post that it is hard to imagine BP digging on the island at ANY time given its historic nature.  On top of that, half the island has been closed off for many years, leaving less of an area for him to have buried the casque and more of a chance of his getting caught during the digging process.  Also, there is no way you would be allowed to dig on that island now and I would venture to guess that was the case in the early 80's as well, no matter how different a world it may have been.  Still, with so many clues pointing to this general area of lower Manhattan, we thought the image might be highlighting the lower tip of the island and headed back for a look around Battery Park.  First thing we noticed is that Battery Park would be a far easier place to dig.  It is quite expansive and better suited for a private digging session.  Not far from Castle Clinton is the Marine Memorial made up of monoliths surrounding a giant eagle.  The head of the bird (see pix) is not too similar to the one in image 12, which in turn got us thinking again about that damn bird.  It is clearly a bird of prey, but is it an eagle?  The beak is rounded and enlarged, but the feet are more reminiscent of a falcon or a hawk, as eagles have much more pronounced feet and claws.  The bird in the image seems to bear more of a resemblance to a bird used in falconry, especially in the area of the lower extremeties.  And why is it white?  Because it is a statue?  Or are we looking for a white bird?  Anyway, the Marine eagle left us wondering more about that bird and its relevance, which seems extremely significant.  Proceeding further along the water we came up to "Pier A" which juts out into the water just off the coastline and in plain sight of Ellis Island (could this have something to do with Johan's earlier observation of the large "A" in the water?)  "Pier A" is a fairly famous area and at the very end is a large clock which looked for an instant like the one in image 12, roman numerals and all.  However, upon closer inspection, we could not detect the small circles at the ends of the hands of the clock as depicted in the illustration so not sure it is a perfect match.  We then headed over to the dutch flag pole at the tip of Battery Park in search of a "sign nearby that speaks of Indies Native."  The base of the monument mentions the purchase of New York by Peter Minuit who was affiliated with the Dutch East Indies Co. (I believe the story portion of the book also references his purchase of Manhattan Island from the Canarsie Indian tribe in exchange for some glass baubles - could the three droplets under the lady rising from the water be the glass baubles and not merely water droplets at all?)  Next we walked to the nearest corner only 40 yards from the flag pole and we stood at the vortex of the intersection where Broadway comes to meet West Street (not 100% certain of the name of the intersecting street, sorry).  It forms a V at this very spot and if you look north, up Broadway, you could say you are gazing north toward the isle (aisle - play on words?) of B (Broadway?) which might explain the reference to the simple roots in Rhapsodic man's soil by tying in Gershwin to Broadway.  Might be stretching here, but just offering some general observations.  Continued once more ...

Continued once more ... Anyway, we walked across the intersection and north on Broadway.  We immediately came to Bowling Green, the first park dedicated in Manhattan.  It is comparatively small and at its northern most tip stands the Wall Street Bull.  Not that the bronzed statue has anything to do with the hunt and I am not even sure when it was erected, but it is worth noting that when standing at this spot and looking due north, the isle of B ultimately draws your eye to a single building in the distance - the only such building visible on the horizon - the Chysler Building (perhaps significant due to the eagle gargoyles that surround the upper portion of this skyscraper and which bear a striking resemblance to our illustrated bird).  I tried to enlarge the picture to demonstrate this fact, but was not very successful, but take my word for it, it is eerily prominant and singularly visible in the distance.  Also worth noting was a sign attached to the fence around Bowling Green (which is also next to a Subway stop - "Cars abound?" or is that just a reference to the sheer volume of traffic at this point?).  I tried to take a picture of it but what it speaks to is the fact that this area was famous for sightings of the Peregrine Falcon (back to that damn bird again) a bird of prey that is bordering on extinction.  The sign indicated that this spot was popular for viewing this rare bird.  While it is doubtful this sign was posted back in 1982, the history may well have been known.  Also, while the Peregrine Falcon's lower appendeges look more similar to our fine feathered friend in image 12, its beak is quite less pronounced leaving us with a hawklike cross between a falcon and an eagle.  Should be noted that the Peregrine Falcon has a close cousin that is all white, the Gyrfalcon, also pretty rare, but more similar in its look to the one in the picture, however this bird is more closely associated with the arctic region unfortunately.  Some other tidbits that drew us to this area included the reference to the "natives still speak of him of Hard word in three vols." which thus far Egbert believes might refer to Charles Dickens (author of Hard Times which, when written, was divided into three novellas) who visited lower manhattan in the 1860s and came to witness firsthand the area nearby known as the immigrant slum the Five Points (the model for the movie the Gangs of New York).  Another possibility might be an additional reference to Netherlands born Peter Stuyvesant, a harsh ruler ("Hard word?") and autocrat, especially intolerant of religious dissenters.  He served as director general of New Netherland from 1646-1664 and lost New Netherland to England.  New Amsterdam became New York and Stuyvesant spent the rest of his life on his Manhattan farm called "Bouwerie" in Dutch; the road leading to Stuyvesant's farm is now the Bowery in Manhattan.  Finally, Egbert and I ventured up to 97th Street, near Central Park, to see the most famous Russian Orthodox Onion Dome church in all of Manahattan, the St. Nicholas Cathedral (again, see pix).  As you can see, the domes are very similar to those depicted in image 12, leading us to believe that the structure is more likely a cathedral and not necessarilly the immigration center on Ellis Island.  Still, that said, there is no other nearby corresponding sites or signs that seem to relate to Image 12 or the verse we were trying to match it to in verse 10.  Frustrating to say the least.  And that is not to mention our inability to find a single stained glass window that bore any resemblance to those three colored panels which, as has been posted before, seem more and more to be a reference to those color blind tests, but without revealing anything hidden within.  In the end, we were unable to narrow our search to a specific area in Manhattan and may have raised more questions than found answers, but we wanted to at least post the pictures with some elaborate explanation for those not able to travel to this area and/or to spark some more discussion for those locals and those far away in attempting to figure out this maddening picture.  Thats all for now.  Hope it was helpful.

Continued once more ... Anyway, we walked across the intersection and north on Broadway.  We immediately came to Bowling Green, the first park dedicated in Manhattan.  It is comparatively small and at its northern most tip stands the Wall Street Bull.  Not that the bronzed statue has anything to do with the hunt and I am not even sure when it was erected, but it is worth noting that when standing at this spot and looking due north, the isle of B ultimately draws your eye to a single building in the distance - the only such building visible on the horizon - the Chysler Building (perhaps significant due to the eagle gargoyles that surround the upper portion of this skyscraper and which bear a striking resemblance to our illustrated bird).  I tried to enlarge the picture to demonstrate this fact, but was not very successful, but take my word for it, it is eerily prominant and singularly visible in the distance.  Also worth noting was a sign attached to the fence around Bowling Green (which is also next to a Subway stop - "Cars abound?" or is that just a reference to the sheer volume of traffic at this point?).  I tried to take a picture of it but what it speaks to is the fact that this area was famous for sightings of the Peregrine Falcon (back to that damn bird again) a bird of prey that is bordering on extinction.  The sign indicated that this spot was popular for viewing this rare bird.  While it is doubtful this sign was posted back in 1982, the history may well have been known.  Also, while the Peregrine Falcon's lower appendeges look more similar to our fine feathered friend in image 12, its beak is quite less pronounced leaving us with a hawklike cross between a falcon and an eagle.  Should be noted that the Peregrine Falcon has a close cousin that is all white, the Gyrfalcon, also pretty rare, but more similar in its look to the one in the picture, however this bird is more closely associated with the arctic region unfortunately.  Some other tidbits that drew us to this area included the reference to the "natives still speak of him of Hard word in three vols." which thus far Egbert believes might refer to Charles Dickens (author of Hard Times which, when written, was divided into three novellas) who visited lower manhattan in the 1860s and came to witness firsthand the area nearby known as the immigrant slum the Five Points (the model for the movie the Gangs of New York).  Another possibility might be an additional reference to Netherlands born Peter Stuyvesant, a harsh ruler ("Hard word?") and autocrat, especially intolerant of religious dissenters.  He served as director general of New Netherland from 1646-1664 and lost New Netherland to England.  New Amsterdam became New York and Stuyvesant spent the rest of his life on his Manhattan farm called "Bouwerie" in Dutch; the road leading to Stuyvesant's farm is now the Bowery in Manhattan.  Finally, Egbert and I ventured up to 97th Street, near Central Park, to see the most famous Russian Orthodox Onion Dome church in all of Manahattan, the St. Nicholas Cathedral (again, see pix).  As you can see, the domes are very similar to those depicted in image 12, leading us to believe that the structure is more likely a cathedral and not necessarilly the immigration center on Ellis Island.  Still, that said, there is no other nearby corresponding sites or signs that seem to relate to Image 12 or the verse we were trying to match it to in verse 10.  Frustrating to say the least.  And that is not to mention our inability to find a single stained glass window that bore any resemblance to those three colored panels which, as has been posted before, seem more and more to be a reference to those color blind tests, but without revealing anything hidden within.  In the end, we were unable to narrow our search to a specific area in Manhattan and may have raised more questions than found answers, but we wanted to at least post the pictures with some elaborate explanation for those not able to travel to this area and/or to spark some more discussion for those locals and those far away in attempting to figure out this maddening picture.  Thats all for now.  Hope it was helpful.

Wonderful!!!  Many facts, but that is where it begins. Great team work!  This is encouraging when the posts seem to have slackened and we need some excitement and hope.

Thanks Siskel and Egbert! I'm in total agreement with you all about the impossiblities that the cask is buried on Ellis Island. I too find it hard to believe it is buried on Ellis Island.

I did a quick check of my rand mcnally last night and noted that there were several entries for Ellis Ave., Ellis Drive, etc.  Is there anything like that nearby?  Is there an Ellis Park, not associated with Ellis Island? wilhouse

Siskel, They may have refaced and/or changed the hands on that clock tower since 1982. Did you (From Verse 10) "Take twice as many east steps as the hour Or more" from the monument? I'm thinking that you would need to take 22 steps or better east from that monument. I come up with 22 because of the hour in the pic, 11 o'clock. I'm wondering where you would wind up. In the street or (hopefully) somewhere you could dig.

Well, we thought we were on a hot trail, especially since no one here seemed to have mentioned it...I guess there was a reason for that! We took Image 12, and matched it to Verse 5. Image 12 is obviously New York City. We thought it may be some place around Grand Central Terminal. Although there is no park, we thought maybe there might be something in that vicinity where someone could dig. We went, and looked around, and although it seems very improbable, we can't seem to cross it off our list. Here is why: Lane Two twenty two You'll see an arc of lights The tracks in the main terminal go all the way up to 117. We thought it may refer to track 22. Right before entering, there is an archway with lights hanging from it (arc of lights). Also, this archway leads to two tracks, one of which is 22. Weight and roots extended Weight of the trains; roots = train tracks Granite walls Wind swept halls The walls in the main terminal are either marble or granite. The floors, if you were to take pictures and enlarge it, look like the pink bubbles in the upper left; the base moulding on the walls were like the blue bubbles in the upper right. The walls were of the same cream color as what is behind the tail of the bird. Citadel in the night Citadel has the obvious connotation; however, the definition is "A fortress in a commanding position in or near a city; a stronghold." Although the terminal is not a fortress, it is one of the largest railways of its kind in the northeast--we thought maybe there is a chance that it wasn't literal. Also in the main terminal, the ceiling is the same blue behind the bird's face, with a celestial painting. A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight The MetLife Building, which is attached to the terminal, used to be the Pan Am building. Beneath the only standing member There is a statue with a clock (although it looks nothing like the clock in the picture, other than the roman numerals) above the main entrance. Surrounding the clock are three statues of Hercules, Mercury, and another person. Hercules, in the center, is the only one standing. The interesting thing, however, was that there was another statute below this, that is not shown in any of the photos we came across on the Internet. It is of Commodore Vanderbilt, who was the shipping tycoon (ergo ocean). There is, of course, Vanderbilt Avenue right there. Then we came across the Grand Central Terminal police across the street on Vanderbilt Avenue. Perhaps this was the "citadel." Of a forest Although there are no forests in that area, we thought maybe it meant Park Avenue. All the windows are similarly shaped as the "windows" in the upper part of the picture. Also, as you stand with your back to track 22, there is an abundance of daylight coming through, which could have been the arc of light, too. Well, we are green, but we are trying. Looking into other possibilities now.

KL - you guys are hot on the trail.  Pictures, we need pictures. Did you go south and see if there are any trees as in the verse?  I am sure there are no real forests south. wilhouse

in the center of the north and south lanes of park ave there is a strip of trees.

ok, get permission to dig. wilhouse

We have pictures. Trying to figure out how to upload them so that others can access them. Hopefully, it'll be done over the weekend. BTW, is there any chance that there is more than one jewel buried in the nyc area?

If you register here: hxxp://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/arm ... e_hunting/ You can upload images and then link to them on the board. Mark

Yahoo groups is a great place to put pictures, but I have found that www.shutterfly.com is also a good place. wilhouse

Unknown: BTW, is there any chance that there is more than one jewel buried in the nyc area? Great question!

just an opinion here.  I really do not believe BP would bury 2 or more casques in one location (city), simply because I think some hunters may say that is unfair for those living outside of the apple.

I am very new to this hunt, and thought I'd start with Image 12 because I live in New York.  I apologize if this idea has been thrown out and rejected before, but I noticed that only this and image 1 have the domed shape on the top.  At least insofar as image 12 is concerned, I think this might indicate a bridge.  If you look at the Verranzano bridge, the cut out portion of the bridge support is exactly the same shape as image 12.  If there is some significance to this, it could suggest that the casque is buried either in Staten Island or Brooklyn (the boroughs at the opposite ends of the bridge).  Don't know if this is helpful at all, but thought I'd mention it.

Not sure if anyone will find this helpful or not, but I thought it was interesting at least . . . hxxp://www.photovault.com/Link/Cities/N ... ridge.html

anyone out there  ???

I'm here.

Me too - just not a lot of traffic lately  - it comes in fits and spurts.

thought everyone gave up

be assured guys that we have not given up. sometimes for me real life intrudes and we have to lay low for a while. wilhouse

Unknown: I am very new to this hunt, and thought I'd start with Image 12 because I live in New York.  I apologize if this idea has been thrown out and rejected before, but I noticed that only this and image 1 have the domed shape on the top.  At least insofar as image 12 is concerned, I think this might indicate a bridge.  If you look at the Verranzano bridge, the cut out portion of the bridge support is exactly the same shape as image 12.  If there is some significance to this, it could suggest that the casque is buried either in Staten Island or Brooklyn (the boroughs at the opposite ends of the bridge).  Don't know if this is helpful at all, but thought I'd mention it. If it hasn't already been pointed out Verse 5 starts out with "Lane Two twenty two" and could be (among other things) Lane 2, 22 or Lane B, V -- Verranzano Bridge. Somewhat of a reach?...probably.

Here is a picture of the bridge support in question: hxxp://www.nyc-photo-gallery.com/Verrazano_02.htm

Hey guys - I'm Siskel's cousin, new to the game.  I'm casing a potential dig site this weekend, somewhere in NYC.  Stay tuned.

Great JRock! I live in Cresskill and I can bring a shovel,my book and help you dig. I have a car. I am minutes from the GWB.

Out of curiosity, where did the name "JRock" come from? Pine Tree

Long story about the nickname - but I am in a rock band, if that helps ( www.thehandful.com ). FYI - Siskel & Egbert don't think my site is accurate, and they may be right - but then again, they may be wrong - I do have a backup though, possibly.

ach! woudn't you know it, This saturday I will be in Meadow Vista, CA... come to think of it most saturdays I'm in Meadow Vista--- oh well good luck! love to hear your ideas even if we can't help hunt we can enjoy vicariously.

When the pic is turned sideways-clockwise, the water appears to spell out an elongated N (dark water) A (light water) and then what could be an O (or I?).  Can anyone else see this?  Also, when the pic is rightside up, there are some crossed lines in the water that look like some kind of crossing highway/road.

Yet another thought ... Back on August 24th I posted about Egbert and my trip to Ellis Island and the lower east side of Manhattan.  I spoke to the theory that verse 10 might be coupled with image 12 as has been bandied about before.  Specifically I remember commenting on Eg's thought that verse 10's language regarding "the Natives still speak of him of Hard word in three vols." might be referring to Charles Dickens, author of Hard Times originally published in three vols.  Still, I was having trouble finding how Dickens could relate to image 12. Recently my cousin JRock (new to the board) pointed out to me the later reference in verse 10 that speaks of something being "passed the hour OR MORE" and how that very language was often used by Dickens in his writings - a google search of this term and Dickens shows he made use of this somewhat odd phrasing in a number of his works including Great Expectations and Oliver Twist.  Still figuring out Dickens part in all of this is difficult.  For thoughts on this you might start with the following: hxxp://www.fidnet.com/~dap1955/dickens/america.html has some good info on Chuck.  Charts his 1842 visit to the states which had him travel as far west as St. Louis, before turning back north and east toward Canada.  Perhaps most interesting, I think, is his trip to Niagara Falls.  I have long thought that the water pictured in image 12 seems to resemble a water fall (especially the way the waves are cresting on the bottom right-hand portion of the illustration).  If image 12 goes with verse 10, the Dickens reference might be leading to Niagara Falls.  Reason I say this is that his description of the falls in his letters (also can be found on the right side of the above-referenced site under heading "Dickens' letters to John Forster from America-1842 - visiting Niagara Falls") is a very famous passage in that it was apparently the one place in the US that Dickens thought to be remarkably beautiful.  SO much so that when you go to a site on Niagara Falls hxxp://www.niagarafallsstatepark.com you can go to the "Discover the Falls - Amazing Facts and Figures" section and pictured in the upper right hand corner is an illustration of - you guessed it - Charles Dickens.  Seems Niagara Tourism uses Dickens' description of the falls to this day as one of the great passages ever written about the National Park.  While Dickens seems to have other connections to NY and the lower east side/Bowery area, I don't see any other stronger connection why the "Natives [New Yorkers - thanks Eg] would still be speaking of him of Hard word" except to echo his passionate descriptive terms to promote the National State Park at Niagara. Thus, I wonder if image 12 with the face of the Lady Liberty could actually be referring to the New York State side of Niagara Falls?? and not the lower east side of Manhattan/NYC.

I think it would now be a good time to go back and review my post in State Maps and shapes in Pics - or the Canadian connection. The Niagara link is apparent (in my mind at least) and the clues are almost overpowering.

to The_Duck. Sorry if I inadvertantly stepped on your toes on the Niagara Falls theory.  Don't know how I missed that posting.  Regardless, not trying to take credit for the find.  Merely offering additional info that I think might be leading to the Falls, and tying a verse to the image.  Still can't figure out whether it would be the NY State side (which would explain Lady Liberty's face) or the Canadian side as you seemed to suggest in your previous post.  And still troubling is the fact that if it is the Falls (and I liked your Maiden in the Mist thoughts by the way) I am still puzzled by how the rest of the image relates.

It is true that one of the casques is supposed to be a short distance over the border into Canada.

Keeping with the Niagara Falls theory, could "the isle of B" in verse 10 be referring to Bath Island? hxxp://www.niagara.edu/library/nfguides/or111-120.pdf

There is also Queen Victoria Park in Niagara Falls Ontario. www.niagarafallslive.com/Queen_Victoria ... ntario.htm Boasts to be the best point from which to look at the Falls, stretches from Horseshoe Falls to the Oakes Gardens Theatre. But this may not fit the "isle of B" issue.

Unknown: to The_Duck. Sorry if I inadvertantly stepped on your toes on the Niagara Falls theory. You didn't - I'm just glad to see more people focusing on that area - I'll some detail to the info I put there in a bit.

I saw a painting on the internet of Niagara Falls dated 1848 or something that actually looked a lot like the falls in the image, so I guess I'm starting to become a believer.  I wasn't able to check my potential NYC site this weekend, but will be doing so tomorrow (day off for the vote).

How do we know for sure that Image 5 and Verse 12 go together, if we don't know who found it? Is there a newspaper article or something that confirms this?

JRock.....The Handful sounds great! Ordering my copy of Palmistry from Amazon. Got any upcoming gigs in NJ? Mexicali Blues? Etc. PM me.

Unknown: How do we know for sure that Image 5 and Verse 12 go together, if we don't know who found it? Is there a newspaper article or something that confirms this? you mean for Chicago? The publisher confirmed it at one point.

Being from Chicago, I followed the trail with the pic and verse, and I do remember an article so many years ago.  I just wish I could get hold of the old article.

Well, I cased what I thought was a potential dig site in NYC - basically, it looks like a dead end.  I thought it may have been somewhere on Roosevelt Island, especially the southern tip, using Verse 10.  I figured the shadow of the grey giant was possibly the UN building or the Chrysler Building (from the gargoyle part of Image 12).  I thought the "cars abound" referenced the cable cars on the tram that opened in '76.  The southern tip of the island seemed to form a small letter v, and if you looked down (river), you can see "simple roots in rhapsodic man's soil", meaning the small tributaries that extended into Brooklyn from the East River (Gershwin was born there).  And Charles Dickens wrote about the Octagon Tower and the former insane asylum on Roosevelt Island, formerly known as Blackwell's Island, in American Notes.  Gazing north at the Isle of B could have meant either looking north toward the island itself, or toward the Blackwell's Island Lighthouse at the northern tip.  Anyway, I spent Election Day walking the entire length of the riverwalk after searching the southern tip area, looking far and wide for the nearby sign that the natives speak of Dickens.  There was no plaque or sign or memorial anywhere to be found, not even at the lighthouse.  Although the southern tip looked promising, as it's basically a small park, it seems as though a lot has changed about it in the last 24 years or whatever (gated fences, no public access to ruins located there, etc.).  It's possible there could have been markers or a sign there at one point, but basically, if the key is there, it would be impossible now to find it.  Anyway, I'm starting to think the Niagara Falls thing could work, but there are 2 other spots in NYC I'm going to check out 1st.

wow Jrock, those were all very plausable ideas... sorry they turned up naught.  I, personally, am still kind of sold on my long ago theory of V10 being in Pittsburgh... but alas, nothing there yet either

Great work JRock! Sorry nothing turned up.....yet?

Over in the what's been found thread, Pine hypothesises that Image 12 might be Vancouver. Poking around, I found a russian artist who lived in vancouver in 1982 and painted some there. take a look at picture 4, at both the russian looking building and the tall rectangular one. the question is, is this vancouver or russia? wilhouse hxxp://www.curios-city.com/list.asp?var ... 20Khazanov another 1982 shot hxxp://www.rcw.bc.ca/Photo/Van.htm

Look at the bird statue on President Harding's Visit memorial in Stanley Park in Vancouver. www.seestanleypark.com/statplaq/page9bstat&plaq.htm I have also posted some connection on the verse 10 thread (him of Hard word).

Id say you found that ugly bird!!! sneaky if he purposely stuck in red herrings to make it like new york....

Look at a recent post on the image 11 thread.  It points to a seabird, onion domes and a Statue of Liberty replica in Seattle.

Then again, with the 74 (perhaps longitude) in the water, maybe this is the obvious (New York or nearby).

fox wrote:: here is an email from BP to FRSTPRZFA which she forwarded to me concerning a possible casque location in Central Park . ----------------------------------------------------- From: To: Subject: Re: Sorry to bother you. Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:08 PM there is no treasure in central park ---------------------------------------------------- drats, there goes my ideas....looks like we need to turn to other parts/parks of NYC I don't believe that this is all that correct. I think Central Park is the starting point in located the jewel. hxxp://www.centralpark2000.com/database/bethesda_fountain.html Bethesda Terrace; Bethesda Fountain: C72 The Angel Of The Waters [Unveiled 1873] Sculpted: 1868 Sculptor: Emma Stebbins 1815-1882 • USA Gift of New York City Following is more quoted from the above page: " this neoclassical winged female figure symbolizes and celebrates the purifying of the city’s water supply when the Croton Aqueduct opened in 1842 bringing fresh water to all New Yorkers.[i] For this reason she carries a lily, the symbol of purity in one hand while her other hand extends outward as she blesses the water below. The stimulus for the idea of the "Angel of the Waters" comes from the Gospel of Saint John, Chapter 5, the story of an angel bestowing healing powers on the pool of Bethesda in Jerusalem. Beneath the eight-foot gilded bronze statue are four smaller four-foot figures symbolizing Temperance, Purity, Health, and Peace. The base of the fountain was designed by Calvert Vaux with detail work by Jacob Wrey Mould."[/i] Is it just me? Doesn't this have a striking similarity to Image 12? I underlined in bold above which gives me a strong impression about Image 12. It may not be buried in Central Park (or not?), but this leads me to believe that this may be the starting point. Then again..... In looking at Image 11... The portal that is centered in that Image looks a 99% dead ringer for the circle path around that fountain. Image 11 could well be a NYC location. No? Study the Bethesda Terrace and the portal in Image 11. Striking resemblance. hxxp://www.wirednewyork.com/parks/centr ... thesda.jpg Notice the outlines in the terrace and the outlines with the portal (what I call it) in Image 11. Map of Central Park and the adjacent streets and some of the landmarks here: hxxp://www.centralpark.org/locator/cpcl ... /cpl1.html I would need to find a little more solid evidence in Image 11 for trully believe it is indeed NYC. I don't think that portal in Image 11 is necessarily a window portal. To me it appears more like a foot path around a fountain or statue.

For the longest time I was sure the ring window was an indicator of San Francisco. because of this statue in Golden Gate Park 's japanese tea garden. hxxp://www.lwn-photo.com/images/Snglimgs/JTG/Buddha.jpg I have since given up that idea----

I noticed two strange features of Image 12 that I don't think have been mentioned before. Both are continuity "errors," illustrated here: First, the edge of the window does not continue between the wings like it ought to. Second, if you draw a line straight up the middle, the blue pebbled pane protrudes too far to the left at its top.

Check this out.  Step back from the screen and you'll see it.  It's either the # 51 or letters SI

I see a 15 pretty clearly-- but and I hesitate to say this becuase Im one of the ones that think this is actually Washington State. but doesnt the one in her right armpit look sort of Empire State Buildingish?

wow...cant believe that wasnt mentioned yet.  sure looks like Empire State Building to me......just like the 2 found casques with bldg outlines. hxxp://members.aol.com/nycskyscrp/mid/3505th2.jpg still convinced this P has to be NYNY or would this be closer? hxxp://www.howardmodels.com/Architectur ... r/pic1.jpg

hi everyone...my name is holli...and i just heard about this one and decided to give it a go...i see alot of familiar names from tweleve here...hope to be of help to you all...

Hey there holligirl....welcome to The Secret.  Cant wait to hear some of your thoughts on this one since you seemed to have a good grasp on ATT.  Spoken for the masses over at Tweleve who have been toiling away with A Treasures Trove....Holli is a great addition to The Secret team. Nuff of the accolades....time to get cracking holli The treasures are no where near the value of ATT but to say you had a hand in cracking one of these 20+ year old puzzles in treasure enuff.  Again.....WELCOME !

A possible solution to the latitude problem in image 12 can be hypothesized as follows:  The "74" in the water below the figure may be indicating the longitude of New York City, but the degree of latitude( number) within the image has thus far been elusive.  The longitude of New York City is 74.006W, and the latitude is 40.714N.  No discernable "40" or "41" has been observed within the image. www.ny.com/histfacts/geography.html I believe the solution to the latitude problem can be found in the square clock to the left of the figure's head. If you add the Roman Numerals (12+3+6+9=30) and then add the time on the clock (11:00) or 11, the sum is "41", or the equivalent latitude of New York City.  If my hypothesis is correct, then this would establish an irrefutable link between image 12 and New York City. What a fiendishly clever way to hide the latitude number in plain sight!  Byron Preiss was a genius! My other thought on this subject is that the clock in the square is a rebus for "Times Square"

fox..thanks!  getting the love over here already..hehehe...btw..i already have an idea about san francisco...who is there that could check out something for me...ive not yet received the book...but have the verses and the images to go from...is there more that i am missing? or do i shout it outloud and hope someone would share it in the event that im right?  lol...let me know the way of things here please...thanks holli

hxxp://www.brooklyn.com/map.php?nbhd=57 Nothing new here, but look at the link above and compare it to verse 10.  You cantraverse all over NY and beyond with this sattillite image.        Boog

I sent a message to an expert in American Islamic architecture about the minarets in the window panel. He wrote back within hours stating, "The picture is of the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn, Michigan, inaugurated in May 2005." Of course it isn't, but I do think this is a good strategy. Perhaps we should identify people more familiar with NYC mosques and ask them if they recognize it. At least one should recognize this structure, surely!

If the negative space were important, it would be highly coincidental that the remaining area strongly resembles a Kremlin-like building. There must be thousands (hundreds?) of buildings in the country with cupolas / minarets like these. I'm also going on JJP's habit of inserting actual buildings into his paintings, for example the Cleveland and Chicago finds, and the building identified as standing in Milwaukee. I think this panel may be the key to Image 12.

with FB here.  this seems to be an orthodox church to me.  Thinking we have probably already located said church (ie... hxxp://www.lisawhiteman.com/pictures/ny ... bsnow2.jpg ) but we just dont have the right perspective. think back to the Milwaukee bldg.  People thought..yeah, that looks kind of like it but what about..?  Then a pic was found online from the exact same perspective and viola....EXACT match.

Fox, do we know where this church is located exactly?

I doubt this is the one. The small and large minarets (?) differ too much in size for it to be the same one that's in Image 12, and we can't see through the base of the large minaret like you can in the Image. Same style though, and I can easily see how a similar church might fit the bill.

bman, I was just using that church as an example.  I dont think we have located the correct church yet.  I was just stating that I think "that" church is out there somewhere, and perhaps we have come across it...but it just hasnt looked right to the one who found it because of the wrong perspective.

boogieman and fox: This is fox's church: hxxp://www.oca.org/DIRlisting.asp?SID=9&KEY=OCA-WA-BROHXK It is at the corner of 12th St. and Driggs Ave. in Brooklyn. I post this not so much to prolong the debate over whether or not this is our church (I don't think it is), but more to illustrate just how utterly cool Google Earth is. Also: hxxp://www.roct.org/

Okay, so maybe I overstated the prevalence of this kind of architecture in the U.S. The church's website claims that it is the "...only example of its kind of Byzantine Revival architecture in New York and perhaps the United States." Its style is "Byzantine revival," so perhaps we should restrict our search to Byzantine revival structures. I have contacted a local expert in Byzantine revival architecture for pointers. I'll send an update as soon as I hear back from her.

In my opinion, from a style standpoint the silhouette is more obviously Russian Orthodox... Pine

Maybe the line in V10 "gaze north-towards the isle of B", with the B being Brooklyn (birth place of BP), could be talking about an isle belonging to B, or Brooklyn.  Coney Island could be the isle of Brooklyn.

I don't recall if I posted this here.  I had tried looking down this list of Russian Orthodox churches in New York hxxp://www.columbia.edu/cu/ocf/getdirectory.html Ended up with this one church hxxp://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC ... thodox.jpg McCarren Park Bedford Ave and N 12th St, Lorimer & Driggs Ave Brooklyn, NY but it's not a perfect match, just an example of what you can find if you keep digging.

catherwood - that's the same church we've been discussing above.

forest_blight wrote:: catherwood - that's the same church we've been discussing above. yes, now i look stupid.  But was the list of Orthodox churches in NY at all helpful?  That's really what I was offering, um, yeah, that's it, honest...

catherwood - it would help if I had read your entire message instead of pouncing on the one you singled out. Now who looks stupid? It would certainly be worth contacting these churches and asking if anyone recognizes the silhouette. I'm thinking of a mail blitz including blown-up printed images of the panel from P12. Or (ooo, better!!), using Google Earth to view each and every one of these churches from the air, and narrowing the list that way. We can instantly dispense with most of them, I'm sure (and most of them should lie within Google's "fine detail" range like the one above). Perhaps I will do this when I return from my travels in a couple of weeks. Wow, it's nice to have a glimmer of hope. Now if wilhouse will just get his backhoe in gear...

nice list of churches Cat and not a bad idea FB.  I just ran google image searches on every church on the list.  Granted, many of the churches came up with no results but the ones I did see were not very likely candidates for our P.  One semi interesting tidbit I noticed was that there were several of these Orthodox Churches in Canada....might we have the wrong locale?  Seems highly unlikely but........

what if it isnt even a real church?  what if it is on something like a famous mural?  just tossing out maybes since we seem to have hit a dead end

still thinking Vancouver, myself

fox - I continue to believe this is a silhouette of an actual structure. The aspect is as if someone were standing on the sidewalk across the street taking pictures. I think BP probably took a picture of the place from somewhere on the street, gave the picture to JJP, and the silhouette was painted from the photo. The Milwaukee structure is a precedent for this idea - we see it in silhouette, but the exact vantage point can be identified if one were there in person.

Pine_Tree wrote:: still thinking Vancouver, myself like this one? hxxp://www.holyres.org/ I too am with you FB.  I still think this is an actual church in NYC & that it is the perspective that is throwing us off.  The Milwaukee bldg is a perfect example.  This IS an actual church, whether it is in NY or not..only time will tell.

If you rotate the image 180, the church image actually looks like there is hand and finger pointing to the end of a penninsula. The blue part being water.

Regarding the silhouette:  I think it's the signature for "Russia" on the painting. It's 1981, the Cold War is going full-strength, and the Soviets are the sure-enough enemy.  You're an artist who needs something visual that says "old Russia" without saying "Soviet".  Russian Orthodox onion domes are a perfect way of getting "old Russia" into the painting. The architectural depictions we see in the paintings are a mixed bag. - The silhouettes in the Charleston (Ft. Sumter), Cleveland (Terminal Tower) and Milwaukee (City Hall) pictures are definitely real structures. - The "pedestal" structure in the Cleveland picture, though, is a collage mixing actual garden elements with (apparently) fictional parts. - Chicago has the archer statue, but the Water Tower has seen some artistic license, and they are also blended onto a "fantasy" castle structure. - Houston's columns are apparently stylistic representations of trees or poles. - And the rest?  We just don't know. Taken altogether, I believe there's reason to doubt that it's a literal representation.  Not trying to have a fight, just don't feel justified in being adamant either way. Pine

Pine_Tree wrote:: Regarding the silhouette:  I think it's the signature for "Russia" on the painting. It's 1981, the Cold War is going full-strength, and the Soviets are the sure-enough enemy.  You're an artist who needs something visual that says "old Russia" without saying "Soviet".  Russian Orthodox onion domes are a perfect way of getting "old Russia" into the painting. PT, I never thought of it that way.  It does make sense though when looking at the line from the Litany of Jewels relating to this P.  Here is the line: A Topaz is the Russian prize: The royal sunstone, frozen fire. You may be onto something here.

hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DN Different view of the church on 12 th & Driggs Ave.  There's a tall rectangular structure like in image12 that I thought might have been One World Trade prior to 9/11.  There's also an arch much like the shape of the entire image.  Can't find bubbles or a maroon and cream structure.  As good a direction to go as any other I suppose.....Stand in the street and take a picture, right FB? Who knows?

PT - you could be right about the silhouette being merely a reference to Russia. I still believe it's a real building, but I would be happy to be proved wrong, particularly if it results in the discovery of a certain casque. Another thing to consider is that, if the silhouette ISN'T of a real building, then we're almost completely clueless about what to do with this image. It seems to me that we have a direction to go if we think of it as real, but we don't if it's just a reference to the litany.

Lots of opinions on this one, which is good, but, if in fact FB is right, we'll lose ground on this if anyone gives up on a solid idea, the only real idea on this image so far. If there was a longtitude and latitude, it would be a little easier. We need everyone to find just one. I beg all of you to keep trying on this being in NYC and churches possibly being involved. On that note, check out this wild coincidense, or is it?  Schroll down and read the caption under the pic of St. Nicholas Church, NYC. hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DN

If you take a look at page 5 of this thread, you will see posts by me and Siskel regarding this pic and NYC.  We have been all over, have visited every onion-domed church in NYC and Brooklyn, and nothing matches the pic exactly. I also believe that this is Vancouver --- somewhere on these boards is a complete discussion of all of the tie-ins.  There is even an onion-domed church there.  It makes sense, because one of the treasures is supposed to be in Canada, and this is the only possibility which has a connection.  I do believe that a treasure is in NYC, but I don't think it connects with this pic.  I believe it is the Dutch-looking gnome pic which is NYC, and there has also been a discussion about that (regarding NYC's Dutch connection, and the reference in the beginning of the book to the Canarsie tribe).  If anyone is able to locate these threads, it would be appreciated if you could post where they are.  I could not find them. Of course, this is all conjecture, and until a treasure is found in NYC or Vancouver, no one on these boards knows the true answer.

Can't find the thread but I remeber it. Valid points as well. So... image9 or image 12 for NYC.  Egg, have you looked at this church? (image9) hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DN I'm sure you have.  It's a Dutch structure. Hmmm.  If you look at the NYC Municipal Building, it says NEW AMSTERDAM on it (Dutch) and one could relate that to image12 as well. hxxp://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q ... a=N&tab=wi We need lat. and long. on these.  Real tough to rule anything out. ps: image3 has a 79 & 43 in it.  Those #s are definite, just may not be lat and long. If they are, that area is Niagara, both US and Canada.

We only looked at the onion-domed churches, and could not find a match.

On the admittedly small chance this building could be a mosque in NYC, I looked in the book "New York Masjid" by Ed Grazda, a photography book containing pictures of NYC mosques. Only two in the book were possibilities, and neither of them look like our building. the Masjid Hazrat-i-Abu Bakr at 141-49 33rd Ave in Flushing has only two towers, and Masjid Alfalah at 42-12 National Street in Corona has only one. Bummer.

The author of the text in "New York Masjid," Jerrilynn Dodds (Ed Grazda was the photographer), assures me that the building is not a mosque. She surmises that it is "definitely a Russian (or Armenian or Greek) Orthodox church." I hope that narrows it down a little for us.

OK, off the domes for a sec. After staring at image 12 for a while,( pic up side down), I googled some New Jersey images and got this: hxxp://www.capitolimpact.com/gw/maps/nj.gif I live in Jersey and always watch the weather on TV.  Every time they show the map of NJ, something bothers me about the northern section of the state.  If you cut the image above in half, the north part almost looks like a facial profile. Then I looked at image 12 up side down, saw the neck of the woman, and the hair on the left side of the image. I saw the Raritan River with the neck and the face in the hair. I don't think it's a face now.  Only when I watch the weather ha ha. Wow. Am I crazy or what.  Egbert, you live here, do you see it? Anyone? hxxp://www.freewebs.com/patcash/pics.htm What's more, the face of the liberty lady, when up side down, becomes a sailboat.  Look at the wave in the image,  which is now at the top, and you see the word SINK.  Gotta be a boat that sunk in the NYC Harbor! I think. edit:Found this in Jersey City. St Peters church.  Want to see if the school has a maroon and cream scoreboard.  I work in Jersey City and will check this out on Saturday. hxxp://www.oca.org/Images/Directory/pho ... jerspp.jpg

See the word sink ? Click on image to make it larger. hxxp://www.freewebs.com/patcash/water.htm

I think I see sink....not sure if I am with you on this one.  Pretty much of a stretch so far...but then again....who knows until it is found.

OK, everything is a stretch in The Secret.  But you must admit, the sink thing, whatever it may be, is there for a reason.  The same way the the 74 is there, and the wierd patterns in the water.  The splash has a million things in it which once the location has been pin pointed, should all become clearer.  Image2 and the lion hair is the same way.  Image2 got us to Charleston the same way, I believe, image12 got us to the Statue of Liberty area.  Decphering all the little things will come once we're all agreed to the location.  This is no offense to anybody here, but it seems that when different ideas are brought up, they are quickly shot down by someone who believes something else.  I'm guilty as well. Suggestion:  If everybody here would agree to humor all the ideas put forth, then some of the ideas like Ellis Island would not disappear for a year before someone reintroduces the concept.  How many casques would be found now if ideas weren't dismissed.  I'm quite sure, with all the intense hunters here, the all the treasued grounds have been discussed at length, and forgotten about.  Whew!  Exhausting.  Just got home from Liberty state Park.  The snow chased me out, but I'm going back!!!! edit: Sorry for the rant.  But, Hey Yo, I'm from Jeersey. can't expect much.  Fox, what do you think about the verse?

Couple of interesting picture links, and there are more on the root page. hxxp://www.pbase.com/reyeslp/image/39825299 hxxp://www.pbase.com/reyeslp/image/39825286 And boogie, this isn't an attempted shoot-down, though I do happen to believe it's elsewhere. Just found them and thought everyone would find them interesting. Pine

Or this one, that Siskel and Egbert found awhile back. It's at E. 97th and Madison Ave. just off Central Park in Manhattan: hxxp://www.nyc-architecture.com/UES/UES092.htm From another website: "St. Nicholas Cathedral is the main temple of the Russian Orthodox Church in North America. It has not only great religious importance, but is also valuable as a unique architectural monument in the United States' largest city. In 1934, the architectural complex consisting of the temple and the Moscow Patriarchate's Representation buildings officially obtained the status of being an architectural masterpiece. The temple was built in 1902 by the command of Tsar Nicholas II."

Springboarding from some comments from Siskel from awhile back... Some details from P12 and from the face of the Main Building on Ellis Island: Separated at birth? Hmm...

Nice. Good pics Pine Tree.  I've seen this church posted before, but not quite that good.  I must ask you though, why do you think this church has anything to do with image12? Forgive me for the "don't shoot me down" post.  I know how it looks in type, but it's not really what I was trying to say. But gosh, how long has everyone been at this?  These designated threads are an excellent idea, it's just that now the forum should be designed for one casque at a time.  These are that hard.  The closest find seems to be Houston.  Wilhouse, wouldn't you appreciate all efforts on this website be targeted towards that one for now.  Or is it that everyone really cannot stay on the same page?  I've only been at this for a year and a half, but it looks like this thing should move in another direction. "Spinning Wheels" is all we're doing.  If I'm wrong about this let me know and I'll bud out. Hey, we really don't owe anybody anything here, right?

I dont think we are spinning wheels at all.  I also dont think that anyone shoots down new ideas.  Yes, we have been working on this thing for quite some time....I started these threads back in '01.  That doesnt mean we arent making any headway, nor does it mean that casques have not been found because we dont focus on just one page.  It means that this hunt is well put together and challenging. One problem I have with all of us focusing on 1 casque at a time is this:  There is always a "possibility" (wondering if wilhouse agrees ) that we still do not have correct matchings for Ps & Vs.  I am happy with the P8 V1 pointing to Hermann Park in Houston......but....what if one of those is incorrect.  We focus on those and then we are spinning our wheels.  As each hunter finds something else "interesting" possibly pertaining to another P or V, cool...it may open up others we are working on.  I think the way we are doing things around here is working quite nicely....dont you Sir Egg? lol The reason churches (orthodox) keep popping up for P12 is because of the sillouette of the church/mosque/? in the arched window behind Lady Liberty. I dont think anyone is disregarding your ideas without thought boogieman.  I for one am pretty much sold on the NY casque being somewhere very near Ellis Island {if not on it}.  Still just having difficulty in pairing up the correct V....as of now, kind of like V5..but I am sure that will change several times before this casque is found. I guess in a nutshell:  "Keep up the good work guys!  We HAVE found one of the elusive casques and it is only a matter of time before the next one falls to this group."

Well said, well said Fox.  After further review, my suggestion wouldn't work at all.  Everyone here is spread out across the country.  There's only so much one can do for Houston while living in Jersey.  Recon is what will find that one.  Good luck Wilhouse!  For now, I will keep plugging at Ellis and post whatever I find.  I pass that area going to work every day and I just know it's there. Just found out that Liberty State Park is mostly built up from landfill as well, and by another railroad. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_State_Park weight and roots extended here's a great page for NY churches: hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DG

Thanks boogieman.  I too am pretty much sold on the Houston casque.  The Milwaukee casque seems to be becoming clearer as well.  You have me now convinced with the Ellis Island casque as one of the next to be found. Here is another big window similar to the P.  This one being in the Train Station at Liberty State Park.  Do they all have to look like this?  lol if you look at the lowest left corner of the window (as in the lower left hand of our P) you could {maybe a stretch} almost see the similarities between the two. same train station has yet another clock as well....not like ours but clocks seem to be everywhere also.

Here's a web site on Historic paulus Hook in Jersey City. hxxp://www.paulushook.org/ It contains the church posted and it's where St peter's Prep School is located.  Their school colors, maroon and cream! It has a small park contained within and has a great view of NYC and the harbor. It's just north of Liberty State Park. One block from Washington Street. Here's an interesting piece about immagrants coming to Paulus Hook. hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DN After the snow thaws, I'll go down there, next week sometime.

Now this seems promising indeed.  Washington Square Park. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Square_Park Hope you can take lots of pix of your visit to the park boogieman.  We still dont have a V for this P do we?  Let's find this one...

A detail from the Arch in Washington Square Park:

fox wrote:: We still dont have a V for this P do we?  Let's find this one... Banking on V5 for this one.  Think it's in NJ, somewhere in that harbor.

You guys talking about NY and NJ may want to take a look at these pics first.  They were found by Pine Tree, if I recall. hxxp://www.holyres.org/eng.htm Go to "Photo Albums" "Sobor Views" Also go to "Church History" "The construction of the new Church" and "External Views of the present Church" My money is on Vancouver for this treasure.  I can't find any other good pics of this church. Also, Verse 10:  "Him of Hard word in 3 Vols." has got to be the Harding Memorial.  It even has the bird in Image 12 (though not an exact match, I admit). Look at #38-40. hxxp://www.seestanleypark.com/statplaq/page9bstat&plaq.htm hxxp://collections.ic.gc.ca/sva/bc/van_01/pg_14e.htm hxxp://collections.ic.gc.ca/sva/bc/van_01/pg_12e.htm I have searched high and low for a rear view of the Harding Memorial, but I have not found one.  I would love to see if his words are on 3 tablets rather than just 2.  I have seen a close up pic of a lion's face on the rear of the memorial, but there is no large pic of what else is back there. The Grey Giant? hxxp://www.trailcanada.com/photos/photos-bc-17-08.asp The arm that extends over the slender path?  Look at #33-34. hxxp://www.seestanleypark.com/statplaq/page9bstat&plaq.htm Or perhaps Pic #1. hxxp://www.seestanleypark.com/statplaq/page9astat&plaq.htm I am hoping that this will attract some interest in Vancouver again, and perhaps we can do some deeper digging.  I think we have found that nearly every Image has some geographic outline.  Perhaps those lines in the water in Image 12 is an outline of Vancouver or Stanley Park. I am also posting this in the Verse 10 thread, so we can have a summary of the Vancouver findings.

Egg, I take it that you do not see the outline of Northern NJ in the image12 hair. I can't say I blame you. hxxp://www.freewebs.com/patcash/pics.htm It's was hard for me to believe at first, but I feel confident. The stand out things in 12 seem obvious to me now but there's so much more in the pic to decipher before it really gets nailed.  Pretty tough without lats. and longs.  What else makes you think Vancouver?

As I happen to agree with Egbert, here's why I think Vancouver is a strong contender: - It's the Russian picture, and the Pacific NW coast is the obvious area of Russian settlement. - Vancouver (Vancouver Island, actually) is mentioned on page 24 in the book.  Several other specific mentions in the same section have been clearly tied to suspected casque locations (even in some cases implying which picture goes with which location), so that raises the likelihood that Vancouver fits into the same pattern. - Picture #9 is, to me, much more closely tied to NY.  I strongly doubt that two are in the same city. - Bumping my own old post, check out the following pictures.  These are Holy Resurrection Russian Orthodox church, and may be coincidental, but they look pretty good.  I'm perfectly willing to believe, as I posted before, that the silhouette is not an actual building, but is the "Old Russia" tag on the image. hxxp://www.pbase.com/reyeslp/image/39825299 hxxp://www.pbase.com/reyeslp/image/39825286 That's why I'm thinking Vancouver.  I do think there's one in NY, just not this one. Pine

Pine tree, image 12 says NYC as loud as it can. (I think Jersey) You have 1 WTC, you have Ellis Island, and The Statue Of Liberty face.  You have Eagles all over the place.  I'm looking at Vancouver. What does it have ?  It doesn't have a rectangular building that looks like a Twin Tower?  Red herring?  Can't be.  That # 74 is real.    This should have been found way before Chicago i!(yeah, right)  Really, what's in image12 that would point towards Vancouver?  I've seen arches every where.  Surfers, domes, eagles, waves, but nothing Canadian. What image suggests Canada? Beats me. edit:Man, I gotta lay off the sauce!

Egbert wrote:: hxxp://www.holyres.org/eng.htm Go to "Photo Albums" "Sobor Views" Also go to "Church History" "The construction of the new Church" and "External Views of the present Church" Boogieman, take a look at the link above, and follow the instructions which I included below it.  I think that the Church in Vancouver is an exact match with the one in Image 12.  Also, the bird on the Harding monument appears to be the one in Image 12.

I see what your saying Egg, it's just not enough for me right now.  Take a look at this right by the Battery NY: hxxp://www.exploitz.com/pictures/4386/index.php?pix=9 These kind of images are all over the continent.  I think we need more to go to Vancouver. Edit: Castle Clinton hxxp://www.houseoftheorangemonkey.co.uk ... 630203.htm

John Wolfe Ambrose- "Once the work on the promenade is finished, you will be able to see the reinstalled memorial to John Wolfe Ambrose by Andrew O'Connor (1899). Ambrose was an Irish engineer who came to New York as a young man in the 1850’s and proceeded to change it dramatically with his work widening the channels in the harbor, developing the docks, and building elevated railroads. This little-known turn of the century monument is a small gem honoring an unsung engineer, the kind of thing we’d never even think to do today. " take a look at what is depicted at the base of the memorial... hmmmm

While I do think this is a NY image, I must use the other finds as an example to point out perspective. The larger the image, the closer to the hole. The Chicago photo a perfect example. A large building in reality, but perspectively smaller here due to its distance from Grant Park. Also, Cleveland, the upside skyscraper is not prominently displayed because it is only seen from the distance from MLK. Here, the promint points in the photo are in order... The girl The Ocean The bird in flught Everything smaller can be taken as a skyline reference. So, what bothers me... the colors. Also, I believe the girl, to follow the Greek theme of the other photos, can be Themis (also known as Dietas, Justia, Lustia) This is the symbol for 'Blind Justice'.  Most courts and law symbols have a deravation of this theme. As well as the Eagle, a legal theme. Lady Liberty is in the mode of Themis, but with specifically a different pose. And  different arms. The original image of Themis was not a blindfolded woman, unnecessary because she had second sight. Its this prominence in the image that begs for exactness. The Church in the background may be a characticature of the orginal, but not the Lady of the Water. Same thing with the bird.  A sitting bird is not the bird in flight.  Think post office symbol. And the other thing which make this hunt tough still today, is that the larger the image you need to find, the closer you are to the actual location, IN REALITY, probably the less significant a symbol to the whole location. Its like Alice in Wonderland.... What's big is small and what's small is big. Oh... and a hi to all.

Howdy Trohn, This one's the Russian image.  Not Greek.  There's one for each set of immigrants.  If you peruse the "What Has Been Found" thread, you'll find several tables proposing the relationships.  Some are fairly certain, and some are quite disagreed-upon. Pine

But the prominence of the lady, to the site - Liberty wasn't Russian either. But I did read the immigrant connections. Thanks for reminding.

For what it is worth, some random thoughts of Stratford Connecticutt: Home of Igor Sikorsky (A wingless bird ascended, born of ancient dreams of flight) Established mid 17th century by Russian imigrants Has a domed Russian Othrodox Church (photo attached) Has a lighthouse Has many many parks and historical monuments Is spack dab on the coast Has a church named: St Mary's of the Sea Has a Barnum Museum (with a eagle like bird on its roof) Just a place with many possibiliites

What if she is a "Maid of the mist" That would put us at Niagara Falls, right? Now I'm not from the US so I may have this wrong but isn't Niagara Falls in New York State? More of my brainstorming for ya! Adrian

A Cake is not made with flour alone. Niagra Falls is between NY and Canada. I have found various examples in this image, but no location with everything in proper perspective. With the black hair of the woman, I am not looking fr her to be a statue but a painting. She looks like a color-form stuck atop the rest of the image.  Also, with the blue light behind her, I am thinking she is a part of a larger whole. I have not found any logs or lats in here to key off of. The bird looks to me like a relief of a building or a monument. Also, with the web feet, I see him as a sea eagle or an osprey - commonly named a SeaHawk. Other notables.... Red Cobble Stones.... Aqua Sea Glass.... White Sands....

Nice work on the Milwaulkee hunt.  Brilliant!  Just a reminder that the 3rd (or fourth) casque will be found in NY very soon.  The Peter Minuit Plaza is the key.  The place where they commemorate the purchase of  Manhattan from the Indians is right across the street from St. Elizabeth Bayley Shrine; Schroll down to the pic of the shrine.  Something we've all seen before..... hxxp://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigm ... buildings/ Looks like State Street through Battery Place was the original shore line of Manhattan before they filled in the Battery, with the shrine and the Plaza right there. hxxp://maps.google.com/?ll=40.703042,-7 ... 006062&t=k

in reference to the shrine, I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about that we have all seen.  the statue of the lady?  Would love to see a close up of her before making up my mind.  there are similar statues of ladies all across the us of a.

I think boogie's point is that this lady's statue is right there, adjacent to Battery Park. I too would like a close-up. Can you go there and take a few zoomed-in pics, boogie?

I don't want to slow the momentum on Milwaulkee.  Stercox is driving this home.  Let me just say, Battery Park is it.  Wilhouse suggested an outlying area.  Peter Minuit Plaza is actually concidered part of the battery, but just outside the park.  If it is indeed Battery Park, I would have certainly included the St Elizabeth Ann Bayley Seton Shrine in my clues if the casque were buried right across the street.  I will get a close-up.  I was staring at it the last time I was there, but was hooked on The Walloon Memorial at the time. BTW, Peter Minuit was also a Walloon . Born of ancient dreams of flight? Walloon-Balloon-geez, that's a reach.... I hope it's still there.

Keep in mind that in all of the other solves, all aspects of the image fit into a nice synopsis of the site - of course, it depends on perspective in size and perspective in mindset. Image 12 overall indicates a window and the upper portion indicates a stained glass window.  Note the water drops beading below the floating woman (with gem) The woman is a religious icon, but as she is floating, she is in the position of being assumed both in body and spirit. Catholics believe that this only relates to Jesus and the Virgin Mary. I have not been able to find a matching image of the Virgin Mary in this manner without head covering.  The stained glass in the Holy Resurrection of Vancouver has one similar but not close enough. The bird is not an eagle.  The feet are webbed.  I believe that this is more closely related to a Sea Hawk (also known as a sea eagle or an osprey) Note the brown on the wings and underbelly. An important item which I have looked into are the Sea Pebbles, Cobblestones, Ocean Glass.  (These do not look like beads to me.) This is individualized in three seperate window panes. I do concurr that in the water is '74' for the lats. FWIW.... I am attempting to link the Pandora image with Vancouver Island.

Just got into this hunt.. I know I'm probably stating the obvious, since all believe image 12 is NYC.. but the Hem of the Garment is Definitely New York Harbor (mirror image) with islands (drops) and all. check it out!

It isn't obvious to me. Can you show us what you mean with pictures?

Maybe this wil help

I can see the similarity.  If this is the case, the jewel would be representing Governors Island.  Could this be where the casque is located?

Up until 1996, when it became a National Park Governor's Island was first military and then Coast Guard exclusively. BP would have had zero access to this island.

Ok Trohn, you are like a grenade, blowing all my ideas out of the water. LOL  Speaking of water, has your eagle eye found anything in the water on Image12?

Yes, but I can't place exactly what it is. Why let good ideas festered that don't fit into the time frame.  There are plenty of good ideas out there, just have to shift through them until all of the pieces fit. The water to me hides an image similar to the image of the old man in image six (bottom left) I do see the numbers in the water fairly easily. The lady here will be right on top of the burial location, I have not in my efforts been able to find an exact match, but my belief is that she is a cultural representation of the assumption of Mary - just haven't found this particular one. The key I have been working on is the window panes behind her. I think this area will dicate a map of the region. Overall, the jewel is on an island. The island will have a famous view of the mainland with an appropriately recognizable skyline. Question, why the double lines below the window lanes? No grenades here, just more land mines.

hxxp://www.freewebs.com/patcash/pics.htm When looking at the face up side down, the left hair looks like Northern New Jersey, no?  The face becomes a sailboat with a huge sail.  Kind of looks like a toy boat.  The right side of the hair looks like a facial profile with a wild hairdo that I can't make out.  Puzzling still is the shadow under/over the nose.  Over the nose when looking at it this way.

Concentrating on the selections of color for this image, can we detrmine if this attached matches the chosen for the domes.... The other domes I have seen are either copper colored or white, but this hue seems to resonate. Comments?

Trohn wrote:: Concentrating on the selections of color for this image, can we detrmine if this attached matches the chosen for the domes.... Where is this one?

BM- To answer my obviously withheld piece of information, check out a possible match to the lower half of the lady's gown... the part that is discolored and darker... an obvious addon ...

And to complete this novel line of make the pieces fit... in relation to the above map, here is, designed by an Olmstead, what is located at the exact spot of the jewel's postioning.... hxxp://www.fairmountpark.org/FDRParkBoathouse.asp Kind of interesting, wonder what's there that we don't have a photo of?

"Near those Who pass the Coliseum With metal walls" In 1982, there was only the one "coliseum"

Boog Man- To finally revisit your question from yesterday, I see an Eagle head (upside down) in the water.

In this style - not a logo for anybody in 1982.

Although it would be fantastic for this to be Philly, I'd even meet you there,  I'm stuck on the NYC harbor.  Brooklyn, Manhattan, Hoboken NJ, Jersey City,  balloons..... I still like the battery, though with everything turned over, it's tough to prove. In the water, to the right in the blue of the wave , I see a BD.  Brooklyn Dodgers maybe?  In the eagle at the top, when turned to the right, there's a dark K, and then a light NY with the maroon in the back of it.  I'm thinking about image5, the Bull and the C for Chicago.

In my heart, I can not see BP developing a 12 part treasure hunt and not including his home city, but I have never thought that this lady is tied to Lady Liberty. And there are many loose ends that have a NY tie, but then again NY has a little of everything. I have not found a solid trail from point to point. See my point about the Blue Domes.. only three Russian Orthodox's in America with Blue Domes.... Kodiak, Pittsburgh, Phillie. Find me another, and I'd be happy to consider it. Here's one out of left field... the image to the left of the domes.. "BookBinders"

hxxp://www.freewebs.com/patcash/nj.htm It's possible.  Trying to make out a name of a town or city is tough though.  Trying the lighter patterns in that part of the gown. edit:  I still like the shaded S and I or a 51 under armpits.

Here's a church in Bayonne NJ, from where you can see Lady Liberty, Manhattan, Ellis Island, Brooklyn, and it has it's own grey giant, the Bayonne Bridge.  Note the color of the domes. hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/745 ... 0892lgpgyZ the bridge hxxp://www.richmangalleries.com/arch_bridges.htm

Nice find boog! It's the closest match I've seen. This is Sts. Peter and Paul Orthodox Church in Bayonne, New Jersey at 98 W 28th St, Bayonne, NJ. hxxp://www.oca.org/DIRlisting.asp?SID=9&KEY=OCA-WA-BAYSPP

Profiles match pretty well. Does the history of the church make it distinctive and is it high enough to make a skyline image?

I cannot find anything yet that would be considered distinctive about the church or Bayonne.  I do think it's remarkable with the angle of the church you have put up Forest.  You can almost set it right in the image. I think the bubbles and the maroon and cream colors in the window are the keys here.  We can link Lady Liberty, one tower of the WTC, now maybe the domes.  The lats and longs for Bayonne are 40 and 74, but that pretty much covers the whole area. Matching this with the other possible verse, #10, the grey giant, if Bayonne would be the local, coudn't be the tower.  The shadow would not cast that far.  It would have to be the bridge linking Bayonne to Statin Island.  S and the I.  You may think I'm hellucinating, but I see it clearly.  OK, so what do you guys think of the NJ written right to left?  Can anyone else justify this?

Bayonne? Just seems like a dense area for him to choose, esp. with the intended landmarks being spread out as they are. Interestingly, but maybe of no use, the largest waterfall after Niagra, is in this area as well... Great Falls. Anyways, for those not familar with the area or with Saturday Night Live... note the following...

The Great Falls are in Paterson NJ.  They even have a monument in the park for Alexander Hamilton there (Indies native).  No church that I can see, nor a "bookbinder".  Where are in the NYC Harbor for sure.  Where?  Paulus Hook Jersey City, Bayonne? The Battery? hxxp://www.rt23.com/history/Paterson_NJ-silk_city.shtml

Went by our Bayonne church today.  If that is the church in the image, I think the casque would have to buried right there.  Unless it's a clue to get us in the vacinity.  Otherwise, you can see nothing else around but homes.  At the east end,oops, west end of West 28th in Bayonne is the Bayonne High School.  Colors, get this, maroon and cream.  Behind the school, on the waterfront to the Kill Van Kull River, is Veterans Park and Ahern Memorial Stadium.  Yet no whirring sound with cars abound.  No grey giant.  No weight and roots extended either.  Still more research to do before this church is discounted.  It just looks to perfect!

BM- How about a tree surrounded by a Green Picket Fence? I am thinking that the Grey Giant is attached to San Fran. The weight and roots is attached to Fort Moultrie. Leaving us with:  The first chapter or Thucydides. For those who do not know, Bookbinders is a famous restraunt in Philadeplphia that is well over one hundred years old.

Thucydides seems to obviously be our Boston V.

I think Fox is right here Trohn.  I THINK.  As always, we can't really know til it's dug up.  As for the green picket fence, seems there would be something like that in an image, like maybe image6.  When Fox brought up V5 for image12, it started to click, even though I had considered weight and roots for image2 a long time ago.  The roots give you the real literal piece you are looking for with the palmetto trees.  Yet, in my mind, it feels right for Battery Park.  Except for the "saved the site" part.  Can't really line that one up without a little reaching. I'm looking at the grey giant for this one now because of the grey giant twin tower.  I don't think it is a bridge, but the trail, for now, is dictating that it could be, putting the literal piece (twin tower) on a shelf.  This church in Bayonne, like Forest wrote, is the best match I've seen and I was hoping that it would hit me square in the face when I got there.  It didn't, but I actually enjoyed the trip. With a wife and three kids, time is very valuable so the going is slow.  Alas, I could really use some help on the recon.  This is a big area and the traffic stinks, plus we lead the country in toll roads.  Thanks to you all that it is still fun and there is still hope.

With a wife and three kids, time is very valuable so the going is slow. The casques have been hidden for over twenty years.... I do not think you have to apologize for taking your time While it is true that we will not know for sure until something is unearthed, I am trying not to settle in my head a verse for an image for a general location - only after all the pieces fall into place. Just seems with time alasping, some clues provided could point to many general locations.  If we used a dart board, I am sure we could get some aspect of most verses to fit into the random target. I do like the Bayonne church, just the location stinks as far as logic is concerned.  Just no where to bury it. I wish we could nail down a good location in Canada with a verse and an image - that would help our remaining US possibiliites. (FWIW - I like Egbert's approach - find one and not get obsessed about finding a second )  Plenty to go around....

Even if the church silhouette is the one in Bayonne, BP may have included it just to establish the Russian theme for Image 12. It may have nothing to do with the casque location.

Forrest- There is no evidence to support your supposition. Every image scrutinized thus far has had no out of location material. Following up a posting to the wiki... here is a link... hxxp://www.phlf.org/spotlightonmainstre ... ing02.html I am making no conclusions, just provinding fodder.

Try this:  this should clarify the hair NJ/NY map issue nobody has responded to. hxxp://www.freewebs.com/patcash/nycharbor.htm

Trohn wrote:: Just seems with time alasping, some clues provided could point to many general locations.  If we used a dart board, I am sure we could get some aspect of most verses to fit into the random target. "Eighteenth day Twelfth hour Lit by lamplight In truth, be free." Dont see how this can point to anything but Paul Revere's midnight ride.  No dart boards here....but...if there is a dart board, I would say this is a bulls eye.

boogie - I can never see the pictures you post. Am I the only one with this problem?

See new postings at verse three.

forest_blight wrote:: boogie - I can never see the pictures you post. Am I the only one with this problem? Can you see them with the link?

I can't see them in the link or the forum.

boogieman wrote:: Try this:  this should clarify the hair NJ/NY map issue nobody has responded to. hxxp://www.freewebs.com/patcash/nycharbor.htm# I cant see the pic either...

I can see the link, and it would be a stronger arguement if the bottom half of the hair (turned upside down so the top of the head) turned the same way as the bottom half of the state - which it turns the other way. I am comparing this to the outline of Illinois in the Image 5. Close, but skeptical.

NJ written right to left.

I understand how it's hard to see what I see (above).  I'll try to explain.  The map and the hair are perfect together.  What does it mean?  With the image's neck, which represents the harbor of NY/NJ, the upside down face, which is a sailboat (or pirate ship?), the water at the bottom of the image, (the upside down wave has sink written in it), tells me that some event happened here but I can't find it yet. edit: gosh darn!  keeps disappearing.  FB- ever happen to you at geocities?

I've never had a problem with Geocities. I've had my account for 12 years, and I host three websites off of the same Geocities site. I pay $4.95 per month for that and for the storage bin where I dump all the images I post. The free account probably has tighter bandwidth restrictions than the paid accounts, but I am surprised the limit is already exceeded for you.

Trohn wrote:: I can see the link, and it would be a stronger arguement if the bottom half of the hair (turned upside down so the top of the head) turned the same way as the bottom half of the state - which it turns the other way. I see your point, but I think they are trying to keep us in that harbor.  Otherwise we could have a great time with the half sunken ship down at Cape May.

Anyone know what kind of cat this is?  Or another animal?

Ravel07- Yes, a nice leg (Image 9). I do think Montreal is our target Canadian city (after process of elimination and some odd proximities) Since you are going out and taking photos, can you investigate this possibility: hxxp://www.pbase.com/dumontd/montreal_lachine_canal/ hxxp://www.pbase.com/dumontd/image/13712129 hxxp://www.pbase.com/dumontd/image/13710840 It is a church (with obvious Mary statues) and it is situated on a canal.  The canal has arched foot bridges. It is early in my investigation of this area, but worthy of a walk about. Thanks.

Yo trohn, i believe you asked for this pic a while back. I still haven't given up on Battery Park just yet.

Thanks BM- I would not reccommend giving up any location, this thing is very fluid. I have found statues of Queen Victoria in Montreal that look closer to the image than this one. But who am I to judge woman, I only see dog legs and horse faces

I have found this in a most unexpected place... hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Moru ... Gannet.jpg Under the shadow of a grey giant, near where you hear whirring in the summer: Le Ronde Amusement. But that thought would be nearly blasemous, because that would upset three potential solves... intersting thoughts...

Look at the beak.  Nothing like the one in Image12.  The one in 12 is an eagle which can be found in many different places (buildings and cities).  Most notable, Ellis Island and Chrysler Building.

Eagles do not have webbed feet and only a handful of birds fly with their feet extended. I agree the beak doesn't match. Le Ronde is known for their (19?) roller coasters. (May through October)

I'm curious about one thing, Trohn.  Over at Twelve.org, you posted HERE'S YOUR ISLAND OF B. w/pic on the image12 thread.  What is that exactly?

Isle's of B: New York - In the East River (off of the 59th street Bridge) Let me check my old source and see if I was referring to an original name of Rooselvelt Island. photo posted on Tweleve San Fransciso - North of Alcatraz (Brook's Island) Montreal - Isles de Boucherville (now a bird santuary) funny coincidence - all three over look former World's Fair sites Take your pick.  All have pros and cons.

Okay, I've been having alot of trouble posting a pic... But what about GW statue in front of FED Hall (Wall Street) as a match for IMAGE twelve. I'm sure there are a few statues out there with this pose, but this looks like an identical (mirror) match?? If anyone else could post the picture I'd be grateful! King

Thanks! Not sure if this angle has already been visited

I also like the connection to verse 10 an indies native is Alexander Hamilton.. (Federal Hall?) or I was thinking maybe a connection to Fort Hamilton? On the Brooklyn side of the Verazanno Bridge? "Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native" Just throwing ideas out there

The Verrazano and fort hamilton have been dicussed at length about a year or so ago.  Good ideas not to be dismissed.  A few of us poured over Brooklyn and found a church similar to that shape in the image.  But it stopped there when we thought Battery park and v5 were the answers....  By all means KW, keep plugging away.  The board is always being watched and will look forward to any ideas. Here's something you can add to your train of thought: In summer you'll often hear a whirring sound Coney Island,  the MTA train yard next to fort hamilton.  Lots of whirring there.  Especially Coney in summer.

Wow.  I can't believe I finally found this pic.  It's from the 63rd floor of Tower One at the old WTC.  Funny, all of our offices were on 62 to 72nd floors. Chilling...  I'm guessing it's from the 80's because Battery Park City, on right, hasn't been built up yet.  You can see tiny Washington St by the tunnel entrance.  Lane 2/22, or In the shadow of the grey giant ? The Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton landmark is to the south, and the Peter Minuit Plaza, the actual spot where New Amsterdam was bought from the indians, just feet away from her.

...and take a look at the roofline on the building on the right. could that be the blurb object in the dogleg lapel pin?!

Sorry adoks53, I am referring to image12 and Battery Park NY, which I thought was going to be casque #3 a few months back.  The BLURB is image9.

not a problem boogieman, but just take a look at it anyway. my theory is it ties together with the "old lady pic" and wash. sq. park in nyc. now, i'm lookin for a dogleg in manhattan. really...

OK. I'm real close to NY and always listening.

I like your thinking boogieman! If we tie NYC to "in the shadow of the gray giant", I always thought that it would literally mean: In the shadow of the World Trade Center Tower ( I know that is a huge shadow ). Maybe at 11:00 am? That should at least narrow down the search to a few ( dozen ) city blocks?

The shadow of the WTC would never have fallen on Battery Park, so if that interpretation is true the casque site would need to be north, east, or west of the WTC. Interestingly, City Hall Park (which has come up before) is just east of the WTC and I can imagine that the entire park would have been in the shadow of the grey giant in the evenings. I'm not so sure the WTC is our giant, though. Wouldn't BP have said "giants" given that the WTC was always spoken of as the "twin towers"?

Check out this week's issue of Time Magazine --- our bird is on the cover.

yup.... hxxp://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641 ... 11,00.html

Ellis Island                            image12 No offense, but these birds look more alike than the Chrysler bird. Not sure what we are really looking for with this bird.  Symbol?  Exact match?

Was there an Eagle airline in 1982?  Wings?  Airport? Anyway.  The way the hair flattens on the shoulders is not natural.  The artist must have done that intentionally.  When flipped, it stands out even more.  The hair, collar, and neckline have been used in other images for clues.  Here, the neckline of the dress and the upper bare chest seem to fit like a child's puzzle.  Most of you know that I believe the left part above looks like north NJ when looking at a map.  Defining the right side is tougher.  Facial profile maybe.  Lincoln?  The shadow under her nose crossing through her lips...  Looks like a symbol on a sail.  Can't quite make anything of it yet.  Is her face a sailboat, or another hallucination?  I need you Jersey lads, regardless of your thoughts on image12, to see if you can make something of this.  I know, blah blah blah, I've mentioned this all before.  Just trying to do a little more convincing to you all to maybe find this blasted thing.

Perhaps the roofline in Boogieman's photo is the neckline in image 9.  (I suppose I could have posted this in the other thread.

johann wrote:: Perhaps the roofline in Boogieman's photo is the neckline in image 9.  (I suppose I could have posted this in the other thread. Roofline? Please expand!

I am referring to the building on the right side of the photo, the building with the step-like shape on top.

...or perhaps the blob on the pin by the "dogleg"

hxxp://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2& ... ne=1917635 Live search is pretty cool.  So,the above link is the Peter Minuet Plaza, (triangular section to the right of Battery Park) the exact spot where Manhattan was purchased for fruits and crafts.  Notice the flag pole, only standing member to the south.  The small brick and white building just north and to the left of the Plaza, is the St Elizabeth Ann Seton Church where our raised statue of St Seton resembles the lady in image12. The plaza was not approachable last September but sure looks like it now.  White stone closest? 12 paces?  Remember, where the plaza is now was the shore line, Battery park was made from weight and roots extended. Seeing the Local Live site brought me back here again.  Stercox, hope you don't mind if I steal verse5 for this.... edit: may have to navigate around with the live map above to get to the plaza, which has changed quite a bit since 82'. Also, thinking the water below wave in the image may be a map of the area.  Kinda forcing i think.

look at image 12, to the left of Lady Liberty is a picture of a grey rectangle, (grey giant?)

regulus wrote:: look at image 12, to the left of Lady Liberty is a picture of a grey rectangle, (grey giant?) Most of us have stared at that enough to make it take any shape we wanted it to.  Yeah, we saw it. Read the verse10 thread and you'll know.  If you want to match that verse to NY, we've come close to Brooklyn but nothing solid. But hey, a fresh set of eyes on this could help.  As always Reg, any idea here could possibly crack this thing.

Well, verses 6 & 10 do not seem to have a home yet.   Might this be the "slender path", a bike path, under the Verrazano Bridge? hxxp://travel.webshots.com/photo/103692 ... 3266xOhgaF or hxxp://travel.webshots.com/photo/103692 ... 3266ZNZTJP Puzzle piece? Verrazano in background. hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/114858 ... 6043wNXwpo Cars abound?  Near bike path. hxxp://home-and-garden.webshots.com/pho ... TnfbQWXpED In the shadow? hxxp://rides.webshots.com/photo/1234235 ... 6713siqKEq SLENDER path- Verrazano NARROWS Bridge

This is my rendition of what the sea foam might look like from above. Why does it remind me of sliced radicchio? Part of it (the right side) might be a very inaccurate representation of New York Harbor. Sorry if that's been suggested before.

It has NY all over it.  Just don't know how. BTW, nicely done!

It sure seems to scream NY to me too.  One thing that may concern me but I am not quite sure how much is this..... forgive me, I dont have my book with me and may just have to get it so I can quote it....but... somewhere in the story of the fair people (I know, most {even myself} tend to agree that it isnt needed)... it talks of the Folleti from Italy teaching or hanging out with the indians around NJ.  If that is the case, than the "pandora's box" P would be NY.  I think that P ties in with Italy. how bout this....if this makes no sense, scratch it all and wait until I re-read the section so it can be quoted...

fox wrote:: It sure seems to scream NY to me too.  One thing that may concern me but I am not quite sure how much is this..... forgive me, I dont have my book with me and may just have to get it so I can quote it....but... somewhere in the story of the fair people (I know, most {even myself} tend to agree that it isnt needed)... it talks of the Folleti from Italy teaching or hanging out with the indians around NJ.  If that is the case, than the "pandora's box" P would be NY.  I think that P ties in with Italy. how bout this....if this makes no sense, scratch it all and wait until I re-read the section so it can be quoted... Now now...  You'll be all right Fox.  I'm sending a doctor right over!  lol

thanks boogie...looks like I really needed that. After reviewing my notes and book...feel free to disregard everything I said.  lol.  It wasnt the Folletti and it wasnt P11 but here is what I was trying to remember. *pg. 13 (last paragraph) speaks of the Lowland Alven {lowland dwarves} of the Dutch going to a land they named Kaaterskill. hxxp://www.angelfire.com/ny4/waterfalls ... alls2.html *pg. 29 (last paragraph) also tells of the Lowland Dwarves {the Alven} observing their friends the Canarsie trading Manhattan Island for some trinkets... "The Canarsie's home was today's present day Brooklyn." hxxp://www.writerzbookworks.com/Factor.html  hxxp://www.answers.com/topic/new-york present day brooklyn eh....right back to our Verrezano Bridge...

Wow Fox.  Things i discounted along time ago may actually mean something.  A thought.. Are you saying maybe these thing are put into the 12 images i.e., Kaaterskills representing the water (wave) in P12, for the sole purpose of figuring out where the settlers settled and then the verse gets you to the X?  Because these places in the book are pretty much hundreds of miles apart.  (The Catskills and Brooklyn, for example.)

Not exactly sure what I am saying.  I think it may be more than a coincidence that the story (of the actual fair folk, not the silly ones in the back of the book) tells of certain fair folk going to certain places.  ie.. the Catskills one...yes, it is far from Brooklyn or NYC for that matter, but it specifically tells of NY state.  Others talk of Florida as well as the Djinn heading for the great southwest.  We have had all along, thanks to Wilhouse, the Djinn P leading us to Houston, TX.  Coincidence...?...I am not sure, but may be something else to study.

So, I found some pics of JPJ Park in Brooklyn.  I tried fitting the pebble/mosaic parts of image 12 to the many cannonballs in the park, but I didn't find anything solid.  The grey square with the red-outlined grey rectangle is similar to some things I saw in the pics of JPJ Park.  They're not great matches - the proportions aren't perfect, and I don't see any red outlines. First, the bit from image 12: Look at the base of the obelisk: Look right behind the park bench in the bottom center of the pic:

Anything with this building? hxxp://www.harbordefensemuseum.com/

hey trohn...nice arches or what! now if we could just rotate the image to get a better look at the stones in those arches... happy huntin'!

boogieman wrote:: I flipped the real pic to make the face turned the same way as P12. If I flip it back, and turn the P12 face to match, look at the shadow under the noses! Somethings in here.  Too much going on for it to be nothing.  Any ideas? edit: The line dividing the cream and maroon squares seems to crease the wing. Almost looks like that part of the wing is a book....opened to a page.... Is that a face on the left side of the book? Wow.  Clear.... (Moved this from V10 thread)

Ok, I confess, I have been holding out on a theory I have been working on in hopes of amazing everyone, but alas, I have come up empty handed.  Bear with me...this is quite off the wall but I have been trying to explain the images (which have yet been explained) in the window area of the P. I believe the lady in the P simply gets us to NYC.  The face (as shown of late) seems obviously to be Lady Liberty and her body representing the "Angel of the Waters" statue atop the Bethesda Fountain in Central Park.  The angel "carries a lily in one hand, representing purity, and with the other hand she blesses the water below".  Description from hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda_Fountain.  Yes, I know, our P has a chrysanthemum and not a lily but the general pose seems to much to be coincidence. Now comes the oddball idea.  What exactly are all of those images in the window area?  Possibly more specific directions to the casque. 1 -  the bird head.. I still think this is our Chrysler Bldg gargoyle... 2 -  the rectangle ...  is it a building of some sort? 3 -  the church...  We still have yet to find an exact match of this church.  Does this orthodox church which looks like something from the Ottoman Empire even exist? 4 - the 3 "color blind test" looking areas...?... what the heck is this stuff? matter can be defined as:  the substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed... and there are 3 states of matter - solid (the red area), liquid (blue area) & gas (greyish area) soooo...if we look at it in a very general way and order it 3,4,2 from above we get:  ottoman EMPIRE, STATEs of matter, BUILDING. Now, I have the Empire State Building & the Chrysler Building depicted in the window area an low and behold, there is one park that sits pretty much in between the 2.  Bryant Park.  I have researched this park and it seems quite small and not a likely place for a casque though.  It is near the NY Public Library...and libraries have been coming up.  Like I said, it is a real stretch but it kind of explains some of the items.  To stretch it even more.....a possible explanation of the bird's head: To a Waterfowl by William Cullen Bryant {similar to Pierre by Herman leading to Hermann Park in Houston} Whither, 'midst falling dew, While glow the heavens with the last steps of day, Far, through their rosy depths, dost thou pursue Thy solitary way? Vainly the fowler's eye Might mark thy distant flight to do thee wrong, As, darkly painted on the crimson sky, Thy figure floats along. Seek'st thou the plashy brink Of weedy lake, or marge of river wide, Or where the rocking billows rise and sink On the chafed ocean side? There is a Power whose care Teaches thy way along that pathless coast,-- The desert and illimitable air,-- Lone wandering, but not lost. All day thy wings have fann'd At that far height, the cold thin atmosphere: Yet stoop not, weary, to the welcome land, Though the dark night is near. And soon that toil shall end, Soon shalt thou find a summer home, and rest, And scream among thy fellows; reed shall bend Soon o'er thy sheltered nest. Thou'rt gone, the abyss of heaven Hath swallowed up thy form; yet, on my heart Deeply hath sunk the lesson thou hast given, And shall not soon depart. He, who, from zone to zone, Guides through the boundless sky thy certain flight, In the long way that I must tread alone, Will lead my steps aright. The second paragraph does mention "crimson sky" and we do have a crimson colored square behind the bird.  Also..Bear Bryant coached the Crimson Tide (U of Alabama)...just another Bryant tie in.. there you have my wacky ideas which have so far lead me nowhere....just thought I would toss it out there for anyone who may wish to research the same path......

I spent some time researching poses for angel statues over the weekend. The pose in P12 is not a common angel pose, but it is a common pose for the Virgin Mary--it's a pose of reaching out and compassion.  There are a lot of VM statues about posed exactly like that picture's lady. The tilt of the head, the drape of the dress, even the style of the dress all suggest virgin Mary rather than angel to me. So I wondered about that -- in light of the other markers that lead to NYC, and did some poking about with Google. There is a replica of the statue of the Virgin at Lourdes at a NYC church...and the lady floats over the water pool.  This water is being used similiarly to that healing stuff at Lourdes in France, but the pose of the virgin's statue is crossed-arm, rather than open armed. hxxp://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork ... 03/322.asp The rectangle might be the nave of a church--or represent a niche. I agree about the gargoyle on the Chrysler Bldg--that bird looked more like a griffin to me at first, then i saw the Eagle gargoyles and it matches too well. Anyway, I thought I'd add my 2 Cents worth about it. I don't know if the stuff about the Virgin Mary might spark something else, but you never can tell. c

I agree with shecrab, fox. I don't see a strong resemblance between our flower-lady and the Angel:

While looking at some stuff about Bryant Park I came across this....Our granite walls from V5? The Croton Distributing Reservoir In 1847, following the construction of one of the city’s most imposing edifices, the Croton Distributing Reservoir, on the present site of the New York Public Library, the city designated the former potter’s field to its west as a public park called Reservoir Square, a simple Victorian greensward. The reservoir itself, built in 1839-43, was a man-made lake four acres in area, surrounded by massive, fifty-foot-high, twenty-five-foot-thick granite walls designed in a vaguely Egyptian style. Along the tops of the walls were public promenades, offering breathtaking views. It was an integral part of the first supply of fresh water carried by aqueducts into the city from upstate New York. This water-supply system was one of the greatest engineering triumphs of nineteenth-century America. Iron pipes carried water forty-one miles to the receiving reservoir in what is now Central Park, thence to the distributing reservoir at this site. The aqueduct system, constructed at a cost of $11.5 million, was officially opened on July 4, 1842. The Croton Distributing Reservoir was pulled down in the 1890s.

This is the sort of pose I meant. This grotto is in St. Louis. Sorry I couldn't get a bigger picture.

You guys are obviously pretty intelligent.  Your thought process is amazing.  But I'm from NY. I can tell you that in 82', the towers and the statue were the places to be. The first few lines from V10 just nail this.  Look back to my post of the statue and the P12 face that I moved from the other thread.  The direction the eyes in P12 are looking in that post, away from the Narrows, is because I flipped the pic to match the statue, and if you stood in front of it today, you would see they look away. The way it was painted, she's looking right at the slender path and the arm the extends over it, and I believe it was done delibrately.  P12 is not like P4 or P5.  There are only four things in 12 that are identifiable. We have two.  Liberty and the tower.  The domes and the eagle still have to be figured out. V10 will not get you to Bryant Park.

I appreciate everyones responses to my strange idea. *FB & shecrab...  as I stated before, the pose is not exactly like the Angel but the pose...oh the pose.  flower in one hand, other hand outstretched...  Also, the comparison FB did is great, thanks.  Look at the empy hands, thumb outstretched, index finger raised slightly, middle and ring finger lowered and pinky fairly straight. What I forgot to mention in my previous post was the robe.  I think the robe is our map somehow.  The folds in the robe look to be more than just folds in a robe...especially the triangular area on her right sleeve and the billowy part hanging from the belt.  I swear there are faces or something in there.  For the longest time I have seen a duck and a rabbit (?) in there.  The duck is looking up directly under the belt so you can see the underside of his beak and his outstretched neck.  Now, this rabbit thingy really bugs me.  There is obviously an eye mid way down on the right (her left) side of the main fold...below that on the rear fold is a v shaped nose looking thing.  Maybe not a rabbit but something definitely there. *boogie...  dont worry, I havent given up on JPJ park just yet.  Just looking at differernt avenues just in case.  We need a backup if JPJ is wrong when I am down there. I know V10 wont get us to Bryant Park.  (1) Bryant Park may be wrong  (2) V10 may be incorrect V (3) We are all so wrong and the casque is actually buried in Omaha NB... *242...  very interesting about the granite walls...

If she had a belt on her.....sash or belt?  Belt Parkway...stretch maybe.  I see the duck. Always reminded me of the AFLAC commercial.  Plus, if you opened the fold under the belt, I think it would reveil a face.  Can almost see a beard and the nose.  Hamilton?   Hamilton Parkway... I'd like to get a close-up of the book in her left hand. When the snow goes away, I'll make a few trips to JPJ Park and the Statue. Nice pic here: hxxp://www.endex.com/gf/buildings/liberty/sol002510.jpg

just a date.....

Thought this might help in identifying shapes for maps.  I noticed that the island of Manhattan has roughly the same shape as the sash on the woman's dress.  Also, there was something I came across as I was surfing....has anyone considered the location as City Hall Park?  One o the reasons I'm asking is that they actually dug up a lot of this park a few years back when they discovered it had been the site for an African burial ground back in pre-revolutionary times. The Northeastern sector of the park was dug in and several dozen human remains were discovered. This isn't connected (that I can tell) to the casque, but the dome of the municipal building in the background looks a little like the domes pictured to me--or one of them, anyway. Also, the statue of Nathan Hale in this park is in roughly the same position as the woman's figure--arms sort of out the the sides, in that same madonna-like pose. The shape of the park also mimics the bottom hemline of her dress. I didn't know how married you all were to your locations for this image...but I thought there might be possibilities here. I can't seem to get any really good pictures of the park or the statuary there, or see if there are any other markers that might help place something here. c

shecrab, City Hall park has been discussed at length.  It looks good, but haven't nailed any confirmers.  I'll look again. There are only a few verses left. ?? Just an interesting bit on the statue: The New Colossus -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch whose flame Is imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. "Keep ancient lands your storied pomp!" cries she with silent lips. "Give me your tired your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emma Lazarus (1849-1887) beside the golden door .  Narrows.  Not the only way into the harbor, but the easiest.

I've been trying to find a match for the domes.  No luck.  None of the domes suggested in this thread, except for the one found by macmail in Pittsburgh ( hxxp://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/neighborho ... _n221.html ) have the 'double dome' form as seen in image 12. The Pittsburgh church is not Russian, but Ukranian so instead of searching for 'russian dome' or 'onion dome', I tried 'ukranian church' and found that there are many more double dome style churches of Ukranian origin than Russian.  The Ukranian domes also tend to have a short vertical section with narrow veritcal windows separating the 2 domes which would also match image 12. hxxp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image ... church.jpg There's a Ukranian Musuem in New York.  Maybe they would have more examples and/or history of this style of chrch? FWIW

Like this eagle alot.  Never saw it there though.  Doesn't mean it's not there.  Must go see. hxxp://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigi ... s=12&pNum= edit: check out these awesome pics of the OLD lady. hxxp://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?co ... &maxCols=4

When touring Brooklyn, keep your eyes out for spots where this one is in view.... hxxp://www.oca.org/DIRlisting.asp?SID=9 ... -WA-BROCHT

I'll tell you one thing, Brooklyn is crowded and pretty large too.  I drove from Manhattan through Brooklyn to get to Breezy Point last summer and it took over an hour.  Straight line too, maybe 5 miles or so.  It is so over populated.  But I'll find that church!!!!

I used to drive home on summer Sunday afternoons from the Outer Bridge, NJ to Woodside, Queens (12 miles tops) and it would take me two and half hours! Have fun.

hxxp://terraserver.microsoft.com/ImageI ... =22479&W=1 Notice the lats and longs, east and west, north south.  The 74 couldn't be more on the spot. Thinking, 22 steps east from the water, somewhere where there is a whirring sound, and BTW, whirring could be fishing reels.  Lots of fishing in the summer.  When is the last time anyone casted a rod?  Whirring sound? Anyway, 22 steps must , according to V10, put you on rhapsodic man soil.  But you wouldn't want to walk across the Belt Parkway counting steps, cars abound.  So, you start on the east side of the highway, count 22, and you should be able to look up, and see the middle of one branch of the v.  Turn and face north and WALLAH!  Who knows? BTW, you can type in any location at the link on top and get all that info on your favorite sites.  One thing I noticed on that page, if you leave your cursor on a grid in the image, it gives you ground coordinates.

sounds good to me!  did we find the sign nearby yet? -regulus

Not yet, I'll be there soon, but the entrance to Fort Hamilton is there.  Also, the street sign for Hamilton Parkway is at one of the corners to the North East.

Did BP say something about no treasures being buried somewhere dangerous such as too close to a highway?  If he did say so, why would he have to provide a warning if a treasure was not somewhere in the vicinity of a highway?  Am I making any sense?  Perhaps not.

Boogie, I like your fishing reel idea. More believable for "whirring sound" than helicopter blades. However, I can't get past the fact that, at Fort Hamilton, one cannot gaze north / Toward the isle of B. . On the other side of the Narrows that would be possible, but not here.

johann wrote:: Did BP say something about no treasures being buried somewhere dangerous such as too close to a highway?  If he did say so, why would he have to provide a warning if a treasure was not somewhere in the vicinity of a highway?  Am I making any sense?  Perhaps not. Maybe he had V10 in mind when he said that.  If cars abound even alludes to a highway.  But I think somewhere under a bridge, 22 steps away from a highway, there must be a safe place to search.  I wish I could nail down a specific visual at JPJ.  The verse fits so well at this point that any clues in P12 just seem so subjective, which bothers me a little.  Some things I am certain of that others doubt, the reversed NJ in her right shoulder.  The map of North NJ in her hair, I watch the weather maps every day, and gosh darn it if that ain't the map!  The darkened shadows under her arm pits, S under the right and I under the left suggest Staten Island to me. But what about Brooklyn ?  The dark blue in the crest of the wave has a BD in it.  I want to put Brooklyn Dodgers in there but how?  Bottom line here, the slender path puts you at the Verrazano.  Now I've got to go look. Been working close to 80 hours a week lately but I'm going to take some time in the next week or so to get there.

forest_blight wrote:: However, I can't get past the fact that, at Fort Hamilton, one cannot gaze north / Toward the isle of B. . On the other side of the Narrows that would be possible, but not here. I guess you mean to gaze at you must see it.  You can gaze north from anywhere and be facing the Isle of B.  The bridge basically runs west to east.  Look at the link I provided earlier on this page. check this out too: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/darn/118256388/

Cars abound can also refer to a parking lot. Or auto dealership. c

...or a railroad car! Hey boogie, you of all people should be able to tell us if that idea holds water.

Other places cars may abound: An amusement park -- i.e., Dodg'em cars,  or for that matter, any of the other rides Mines Boarding stops for tours Railroad stations, depots Subway stops Ferries Tunnels and Bridges Border Checkpoints Drive-in Movies Just throwing these out there. c

Other places cars may abound: An amusement park-- i.e., Dodg'em cars,  or for that matter, any of the other rides Mines Boarding stops for tours Railroad stations, depots Subway stops Ferries Tunnels and Bridges Border Checkpoints Drive-in Movies Just throwing these out there. c

... or an auto junkyard

...or an area where the streets are named after cars. There's a road hereabouts named "Four Wheel Dr." I always chuckle when I pass it.

...or what about a concentration of people who emmigrated from the Carpathian Mountains?

...and Oh, yes, my personal favorite, though nobody else liked it ...along the Lincoln Highway through Edison, N.J., which also happens to form part of the "V" at the entrance to the Menlo Park Museum, which has 3 volumes of hard word (the entry stone, the museum, and THE TOWER, which co-incidentally happens to fall halfway down 1 side of the "V". (the side street, not lincoln highway)

...and Oh, yes, my personal favorite, though nobody else liked it ...along the Lincoln Highway through Edison, N.J., which also happens to form part of the "V" at the entrance to the Menlo Park Museum, which has 3 volumes of hard word (the entry stone, the museum, and THE TOWER, which co-incidentally happens to fall halfway down 1 side of the "V". (the side street, not lincoln highway)

adoks53 wrote:: ...or what about a concentration of people who emmigrated from the Carpathian Mountains? Or the "Carr Family Cemetery?" ck

You know, maybe this verse refers to Detroit????? It just o car red to me! c

The Statue Of Liberty !  I still don't know why this is being debated.  The Trade center!  The slender path and the arch of the Verrazano.  The slender path nails this. OK shecrab, what's up with your theory?

Okay, I haven't been able to get to the location yet. But I am going....soon, I hope. So I've decided to go ahead let you all know what it is I found and why I'm going with this instead of the Charleston thing. Unfortunately, I don't have my notes with my at work today, and won't be able to post anything about it until later today. So I hate to leave you with a teaser, but it will simply have to wait until later today. ck

...awh ... c'mon, is your post a clue? Missing notes, teaser... Cat Stephens...

the flower and the face are the only two things you can say you know.find the connection to start this puzzle.get ready to work your ass off.the race is on! find the connection....

emilyek, this race started 25 years ago.  It slowed to a crawl and has now become more about being fascinated that it is so hard to solve.  The race is over.  We that are here, do not care who finds it.  Lets just do it.  Welcome!

it starts today! find the connection....

north star wrote:: it starts today! find the connection.... When does it end? ...and what's with the name change? CHRYSANTHEMUM: Cheerfulness, optimism, rest, truth. Considered to be a noble flower in Asian culture, mums are used as an object of meditation per a suggestion by Confucius. Also the birthflower for November. CHRYSANTHEMUM, RED: I love. CHRYSANTHEMUM, WHITE: Truth, loyal love. CHRYSANTHEMUM, YELLOW: Slighted love

LADY LIBERTY and a CHRYSANTHEMUM...find the connection? Princess Kikuko?  Not exactly sure where you are headed but Welcome to the hunt.

I want to share something with you.research floating chrysanthemum and the statue of liberty infantry.

Are you talking about the tournament of roses parade? ck

north star wrote:: I want to share something with you.research floating chrysanthemum and the statue of liberty infantry. WWII and the attack on Okinawa. Its called the Operation Kikusui or "Floating Chrysanthemum" using submarines. I do not see it fitting into this solve... but it was a nice war lesson

research the 77th infantry..where did it come from

Fort Totten NY.  Queens actually.  I was down this road a long time ago with my buddy Keylime.  Got nowhere. What have you got? (nice try joe)

if you research fort totten you will find there are a few of them.research the one in washington dc.there is a train station,you will find something there! it relates to image 12.there are also lots of pics...you will see it

north star wrote:: if you research fort totten you will find there are a few of them.research the one in washington dc.there is a train station,you will find something there! it relates to image 12.there are also lots of pics...you will see it I don't see any connections.  This image/site should be at a coastline. The train station/park is inland.

north star wrote:: if you research fort totten you will find there are a few of them.research the one in washington dc.there is a train station,you will find something there! it relates to image 12.there are also lots of pics...you will see it I don't see any connections.  This image/site should be at a coastline. The train station/ park is inland.

ok, I give oh celestial body to the North....  I have looked and looked and looked at the Ft Totten Metro Station as well as Ft T itself and see nothing that even remotely resembles anything in this P. Not wanting to sound like a broken record here but..... It is Wonderful to have new eyes & eye-deas concerning this hunt, but.. it is quite disheartening when a new person comes on, says they "know" the answer, and casually tries to drop subtle hints concerning their theory.  Everyone around here is completely open with any and all ideas because it isnt the "treasure's worth" that we are all wanting but the thrill of unlocking the clues to this very old hunt.  Guess that about sums it up...... Back to the hunt guys...we are quickly closing in on a couple more of these elusive casques......

So, Fox, what you are saying is: just say no to Hint Julips...

i never said i knew the answer.i just wanted to show you how this puzzle works.dont get upset.who said it needs to be on the coastland.

north star wrote:: i never said i [k]new the answer. i just wanted to show you how this puzzle works. Then show us how the puzzle works (in your opinion).  We welcome a step by step explanation of where we've been missing the clues.  I just didn't want to solve someone elses cryptic hints when we have enough of the official hints to deal with.

you know what,im going to sit back and be silent.if anyone cares to read and see whats at the train station then we can chat...good luck on your quest

dwarf star wrote:: you know what,im going to sit back and be silent.if anyone cares to read and see whats at the train station then we can chat...good luck on your quest I am totally confused about why you brought this up in the first place? This forum is for sharing of ideas...  right, wrong or other wise. After twenty-six years, the competition for bragging rights has sailed. FYI... The station was not fully operational in 1981. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Totte ... gton_Metro )

Four images... nothing remarkable... hxxp://world.nycsubway.org/perl/showpix ... G1sfG5zdGE hxxp://transit.schuminweb.com/rail/wash ... tation=E06 hxxp://transit.schuminweb.com/rail/wash ... tation=B06

How dumb are we? (me) Can we assign someone to look at the forest, while someone else looks at the trees? Please take a look at the FORT HAMILTON Seal: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hamilton I bet there is a large sign some where outside the Fort with this on it..... can someone look for it?

The sign I saw didn't have the seal.  It was big though.  About 6 x 8 feet, located opposite the park on the corner of Fort Hamilton Parkway and 101st St.  I saw the eagle on the seal before.  I think you posted it a while back Trohn.  I didn't think anything of it back then but I do now.  I like it!

boogieman wrote:: The sign I saw didn't have the seal.  It was big though.  About 6 x 8 feet, located opposite the park on the corner of Fort Hamilton Parkway and 101st St.  I saw the eagle on the seal before.  I think you posted it a while back Trohn.  I didn't think anything of it back then but I do now.  I like it! Me too. I just reealiized that the design of it is the same design as the image. (of course with some other details)

Hi folks, I have a suspition that image 12 refers to Battery Park in NYC and may be linked with verse 10. (I analysed the pic and came up to battery park, the folks over at the verse 10 section came up with battery park as a possibility, and I said "hey, why not?") The eagle looks like the one at the war memorial. If you turn the image upside-down the red-outlined rectangle becomes the space between two towers (the trade centre that isn't there any more?) between the minarettes/ russian dome thingys there is the silhouette of a man also, when the image is upside-down, the woman's hair on the side of the russian domes looks vaguely like the sillhouette of a man's face. The general outline of the crescent inset is quite similar to a crescent shaped garden at battery park (google maps satelite-hybrid setting). now for the kicker: 1) copy and paste the image into microsoft paint (found in the accesories section if you're a windows user), 2) select the "image" menue, and then choose "invert  colors"  3) look at the woman's robe - there is very clearly the statue of liberty's eye in one fold and her lips in another. (also, in part of the tide swirls a low angle image of New york around the brooklyn bridge area, can be seen) that's all I got cheers

corvus, we've hashed these points up, down, left, right, and 6 ways from Tuesday. The possible face in the robe has been noted before, but what makes you think it is the face of Lady Liberty? We need convincing.

Here is what turtle123456 and I have found so far for P12. I will add to The Secret Wiki . Clock Eleven O'clock for 11th month November. "Times Square"? Chysanthemum Birth flower for November. Topaz Topaz is November birthstone and jewel for this picture. Robe Face of George Washington . The the nose and the lower lip and chin proportions seem to fit. The farther away you look at it the more the face seems to come out. Arch Window Simular to Judson Memorial Church windows . Woman’s Face Statue of Liberty face. Bird Oversized head. Could be Chrysler Building Gargoyle or typical eagles on monuments, consists of a strong eyebrow and large beak. There are birds mentioned in Verse 6, “Stand and listen to the birds”. Grey Silhouette One the Twin Towers? Towers could be seen through the arch down 5th Ave. Three fields of color Represents stained glass windows. Judson Memorial Church ? Square Panels Could simply be space filler? Obscured by bird. Water Droplets I have no ideas. Could they be used in the final dig spot? Waves The water has been used for coordinates. So it already served a purpose. But there is so much more water in the picture. Domes Seems to be Byzantine style. Not sure color blue is important. Blue may represent typical mosaics of this style. Arch Picture Outline Shape of Washington Square Arch ? Multiple arches and arch windows in Judson Memorial Church ?

the water droplets are the three islands off of mahatten island, in the picute her gown is in the shape of mahatten island and there is three island in the location of the drops,

Hi everyone, Although I bought my copy of The Secret 2 years ago, I only recently had a chance to start looking at it. Since I just moved to northern NJ, I figured that I would concentrate on image 12. Everyone seems very open on this site to sharing ideas. Here's my thoughts on the water droplets. If any of you saw the Numbers episode lately dealing with a cryptographer, you'll know that they solved part of  the code using the placement of some objects as musical notes. I traced the water droplets on wax paper and held them up to a bar of music. Assuming that the gem is middle C, the notes appear to be G or F one octave higher, middle C, E, then G or F one octave higher again. What led me to think about this is the symbol seen in the water in the light blue wave above the "74."  It looks like a % sign, only it has two bars in the middle. This is a musical symbol that stands for "simile marks" (see link below and search on simile) meaning to repeat the sequence. Given that some people are linking this p to v10 with rhapsodic man, this may be a clue. I tried matching the tune to Stairway to Heaven or Rhapsody in Blue, but didn't have much luck. Perhaps someone with a piano and some sheet music could explore this more. I may have also started on the wrong key. Another possibility is that the letters then become numbers, C for 3, etc. I'm still playing with it, but I thought I'd throw the idea out since I hadn't seen it posted before. If this is an old and discarded theory, just let me know. hxxp://www.dolmetsch.com/musicalsymbols.htm Shannon

turtle123456 wrote:: the water droplets are the three islands off of mahatten island, in the picute her gown is in the shape of mahatten island and there is three island in the location of the drops, I opened google earth and popped up manhatten Island I dont see the correspondance with the bottom of the dress and manhatten - Them seem to me to be two entirely different shapes and while there are indeed drops and a jewel below the dress - the dont seem to me to correspond with the locations of Governors island, Ellis isand and Liberty island. Am I missing something?

THIS SHOULD HELP, IT IS A MIRROR IMAGE OF THE GOW

Shannon - that is precisely the kind of thinking outside the box that will win this thing. Great ideas!! Recently someone very new to the hunt looked at Verse 9 and saw the acrostic under everybody's noses -- the first time anyone was able to do that in 26 years of hunting. I hope you are similarly right about the musical notes. Can you illustrate exactly what you mean using images?

turtle123456 wrote:: THIS SHOULD HELP, IT IS A MIRROR IMAGE OF THE GOW Sorry, I still dont see it, out side of the they both have a vaguely battery park shaped end. I dont see the corresponding shapes around houston street or 34th street and the the water drops or jewels dont correspond to any island location I know of  at all. In the other pictures I have seen the maps line up perfectly, not vaguely. But thats great news about BP not ruling out manhatten, I knew something like that had come out ,but I was busy concentrating on SF Washington Square park looks very promising, but I would go fast They have published a new plan for the park and it looks like the corners are all going to get made over.

It pains me that I am in Manhattan RIGHT NOW and I can't go treasure hunting. I'm in a Starbucks at Madison Square Garden. I'm in town for a wedding (not mine) for a few days, but there will be no opportunity to spend my time as I would truly like to. One of these days... You can bet your britches I'll be keeping my eyes open, regardless.

forest_blight wrote:: It pains me that I am in Manhattan RIGHT NOW and I can't go treasure hunting. I'm in a Starbucks at Madison Square Garden. I'm in town for a wedding (not mine) for a few days, but there will be no opportunity to spend my time as I would truly like to. One of these days... You can bet your britches I'll be keeping my eyes open, regardless. Wow Mr Blight!  Just an hour ago I was at 33rd and 6th ave., one block away.  I was working there and then had to go to Jersey City, then Newark. Hey, maybe you can accidentally miss your flight and head over to Brooklyn as well as Washington Square.

forest_blight wrote:: hope you are similarly right about the musical notes. Can you illustrate exactly what you mean using images? Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. I don't have a good photo editor installed at the moment. Attached is a pic that illustrates the idea, although the scale of the lines against the picture are different than the one I was using on the actual book. In this pic, the notes appear to be c , middle c, e, and d. Someone with a piano and a sheet music would have to play with the scales to see if it means anything.

Here is a comparison for the robe face. This match is between the robe and a computer generated image of a George Washington likeness. Here are some links to image projects. hxxp://www.nriinternet.com/Section3Who/WhoUSA/A_D/Anshuman_Razdan/index.htm hxxp://prism.asu.edu/research/gwproject.php hxxp://www.benjaminrush.com/washingtongeorge.com/

I know that the focus is on the Holley monument right now, but I just wanted to throw out a piece of info that I saw on the NY Parks website.  Apparantly, Garibaldi was known as the "sword of Italian unification."  You could translate that to be "that bar that binds." hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_par ... hp?id=8712 Shannon

And look at this.  I never thought this to be true, but you can see both of them! edit: I don't know Italian, but Shannon, this is on the Garibaldi monument.  I assume it references what you found.

Line-by-line, it translates to: The 2nd of June 1888 The Italians of the United States of America they erected

An example.... hxxp://www.catholiccompany.com/product_ ... ?ID=10447#

I'm a long-time lurker around here...got hooked on Masquerade as a kid and have been poking around The Secret for several years now. Really enjoy seeing how everyone approaches things differently and sees things differently. For a long time, I, like many others, have felt sure there is something deliberate about the dress folds in this image and that there's something hidden there. Based on a few other things I'm noodling around with related to this image, I was just wondering if anyone might happen to be able to see how whatever it is hidden in her dress might be a whale...while I'd take any whale, actually, I'm hoping there's a beluga hidden in there by chance. Honestly, I can't really see it myself, although when I'm exhausted I can almost convince myself otherwise. But if anyone can figure out a way to see one of those in her dress, then it would go a long way toward strengthening a theory I'm percolating on this image! Here are Google image results for belugas, just in case.... hxxp://images.google.com/images?q=beluga+whale&hl=en&rlz=1T4GFRC_enUS211US211&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=images&ct=title

People have seen a lot of things in that dress, but I don't think belugas number among them. By the way, welcome!! We'll be happy to trash listen carefully to your theory if you care to share it.

I haven't read through all of the posts on this thread, but what I have I haven't seen this mentioned.  Look at the part of the image that looks like russian style temples.  Now focus on the red area.  All of the sudden, to me it looks like a land mass bordering water.  To me it looks like two pennisulas with two small islands in between (may have to zoom in to see the islands, but they are there.)  Don't know if this is anything or not, but I think it would be clever on the artist's part to exaggerate the coast line a little bit to make it look like temples and use colors that force the eyes to see the temples first.

Here's something that might be helpful to you---it's the negative image of the picture. Sometimes when you see the negative image, something that pops out pops in, and vice versa....maybe this will help you see things a little better. Since this was such a large file, I've hosted it elsewhere.

CK, thanks for the negative image.  It really makes some things pop out.  The waves remind me of Japanese art. Maybe someone has a more "public art" version of the wave. Then again, it could just mean the casque is near the shore. AnotherDoth

2fast4u2c wrote:: Sonoran, I do like your solution but something does bother me.  In the solves for the two that have been found, there has been a visual confirmer at the dig site that can also be seen in the image.  (Wall in Cleveland and fenceposts in Chicago.)  These are pretty much exact matches.  There would be two things that I would look for before I started digging at the location that you have pointed out: 1.  Look for a visual confirmer.  I would not try to tear up asphalt if there is not something you could consider an exact match.  It doesn't have to be at the dig site itself, but should be viewable from the dig site. Good point 2fast ! I bet most, if not all, of these locations have a final spot visual confirmer. Although it was of the last items I identified (by accident), I believe I found your confirmer. When I was trying to nail down " White house close at hand. " I noticed that the windows in Judson Memorial Church are similar to the top of the Picture 12; the arched stained glass windows. Those three "window panes" at the top of Picture 12 could be representing the multiple arched stained glass windows in Judson Memorial Church. This link is a good link for different angles on those windows. hxxp://www.nyc-architecture.com/GV/GV021JudsonMemorialChurch.htm Judson borders the southwest side of Washington Square Park. Here is one of my favorite ground reference pictures. The whole park is only 10 acres. So anything bordering the park should be within sight. Here is an arial shot with Judson Memorial Church on the left and Alexander Holley Monument to right of middle.

Check out the Russian Orthodox Cathedral of the Transfiguration of Our Lord, in Brooklyn hxxp://www.roct.org/ Note that the domes were once green/turquoise (probably in the '80s as well), but were cleaned in 2004 and are now brown/copper. Also McCarren Park is located across the street. -bazile

i always thought the birds beak looke, like seattle seahawks logo

I guess there is a vague resemblance to the seahawk...  I always loved this: but the more I look at it, the less it looks like it.  I think there is a VERY strong resemblance but...I am beginning to think we need to find the EXACT replica...

Possibly a couple more options for the eagle from around NYC: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/annebartle ... 212/  - Grand Central Terminal hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/annebartle ... 212/  - Maine Monument at Columbus Circle

Has anybody suggested Battery Park's East Coast Memorial as a match for the eagle in the picture? It's not an exact match though.

unfortunately...all of the eagles/birds we are finding is not an 'exact' match.

what happened with that statue in the pacific northwest, washinton/oregon/vancouver-- somewhere around there I thought it was an exact match....

ravel07 wrote:: Has anybody suggested Battery Park's East Coast Memorial as a match for the eagle in the picture? It's not an exact match though. I don't have time today to search through the forum but I think that that eagle was suggested but that it was placed there after 1982.

that eagle was placed and dedicated in 1963.

I don't know guys....The bird looks like a white eagle with webbed feet, and a seagull's body.  If that is exactly what JJP meant to paint, I can't figure what he would mean by that...Long ago I googled white eagle+Brooklyn and came up with a night club and a deli and coincidentally they were close to the church with the domes on Dowd st.  It ended there.  umm

I was looking at image12 and had an idea(probably a stupid one but hey I am all about stupid ideas so I will share it with you.)  The three panels of of the stained glass window that look like circular paving stones kinda reminds me of the 3-dimensional pictures where you are looking at just a mass of color and suddenly your eyes cross and a sailboat or something elsle appears.  Now I have never been able to do it but maybe someone here is better at that than I am. Just a thought

maltedfalcon wrote:: that eagle was placed and dedicated in 1963. Oh. I was wrong then. For some reason I thought it was part of a Sept. 11th memorial. My bad! In that case, I'll have to check out the area the next time I'm in NYC.

digger7 wrote:: I was looking at image12 and had an idea(probably a stupid one but hey I am all about stupid ideas so I will share it with you.)  The three panels of of the stained glass window that look like circular paving stones kinda reminds me of the 3-dimensional pictures where you are looking at just a mass of color and suddenly your eyes cross and a sailboat or something elsle appears.  Now I have never been able to do it but maybe someone here is better at that than I am. Just a thought You are thinking of magic eye hidden pictures or autosterograms which were invented in 1979. The first book of them was not published until 1993 while possible is not too probable, I tried that too.

I had my wife try it.  Look what happened to her!

Unknown: You are thinking of magic eye hidden pictures or autosterograms which were invented in 1979. The first book of them was not published until 1993 while possible is not too probable, I tried that too. [/quote] i thought those highlights books, had them to when i was a kid in the 60s? could be wrong, memory is not what it use to be

i always thought it was the color blindness test......went into that when i first got into the book...not sure where i posted it..lol, i was getting all of them all mixed up to start with, think i'm getting better. hxxp://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/ishihara.html

Unknown: i always thought it was the color blindness test Wait... you mean the rest of you can't see the message "The casque is hidden at the southeast corner of the foot of the Narrows Bridge" hidden in the window? You guys need to get your eyes checked!

i couldn't stop seeing naked men..........lol  j/k!!! (like the ink-blot tests)

i know we think "slender path"  is for the  verrazano-narrows bridge but i'd never noticed the resemblance to the image until i saw this picture: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/wallyg/1530637 ... 164131264/

Wow, I have always been with Mr. Boogs about this being in or around JPJ Park (which is right below one of the towers of the V bridge but I too had never really made the connection of the shape of P12 looking so much like the bridge.  Thanks for the visual slaps...

fox wrote:: Wow, I have always been with Mr. Boogs about this being in or around JPJ Park (which is right below one of the towers of the V bridge but I too had never really made the connection of the shape of P12 looking so much like the bridge.  Thanks for the visual slaps... WHAT?  I've posted so many images of that confounded bridge (Led Zeppelin song) that i could not consider any other option.  call me when you dig it up!!!!

forest_blight wrote:: Wait... you mean the rest of you can't see the message "The casque is hidden at the southeast corner of the foot of the Narrows Bridge" hidden in the window? You guys need to get your eyes checked! That's what I'm talking about!

boogieman, do you know of any sign of noah webster around the bridge?  he was an indian missionary and he wrote the dictionary. i'm pretty sure there were 3 volumes of the dictionary made. (from researching long time ago) do you think "the isle of b" could be brooklyn?

haven't found anything here, but thought it was really neat how the clouds look like waves in the science center, liberty state park: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/jag9889/2596754971/ i got so excited when i saw the first sentence..............but now i see it was written in 2001..........sorry hxxp://www.folsp.org/25th_jersey_journa ... _story.htm i was looking for this: hxxp://www.folsp.org/historical_sign.htm does anyone know what the word PATH in this sentence stands for? never mind, i just found it...port authority trans-hudson Transportation A picturesque and surprisingly convenient ferry service to Manhattan will spirit you, but not your car, across the river to lower Manhattan in about eight minutes. PATH Rapid-Transit System connects commuters to various parts of New Jersey and Manhattan A light rail line through town that runs from Bayonne to Jersey City is more for access to shopping and museums than daily commutes. The area also has more than enough bus service.

Unknown: does anyone know what the word PATH in this sentence stands for? never mind, i just found it...port authority trans-hudson Neat observation! I don't think anyone has suggested that before. This may lead places.

Great find, Slappy! Even the icy blue color of the sky is similar to image 12... This is taken from Google Street View...so this is how the arch would have looked when BP drove by it.

thanks forest i don't mean to set anyone on the wrong "path", lol, i am just hoping to find the one thing that will really help the hunters.

surprised 'ole Boogie didnt catch this 'PATH' reference...

That is too funny.  for all of you that don't know, I am a Car Inspector for the Port Authority Trans-Hudson Corp.  PATH. No kidding.

slappybuns wrote:: boogieman, do you know of any sign of noah webster around the bridge?  he was an indian missionary and he wrote the dictionary. i'm pretty sure there were 3 volumes of the dictionary made. (from researching long time ago) do you think "the isle of b" could be brooklyn? I remember when you posted that slappy.  There isn't anything around there about him that I have seen.  I'll take another look. BTW, the only thing that extends over PATH is the Hudson River that runs between Jersey City and Manhattan.  Of course if you head a little north, up river you'll find the town of Weehawken on the jersey side..  There is a small memorial for our Alexander Hamilton there.

I know this pic is very large, but just take a look at some of the dark areas.  I've played with the brightness and contrast and you can most definitely see the NJ on her left shoulder.  A lot of things in the wave and water.  And very bright is the S and I directly under both armpits, left to right.

OK, I swear to you that the first image of her hair is a map of northern NJ only.  I can't figure out the next one.  There are other images of faces in other paintings, like JFK's face in image one.  Does anyone recognize this one?  I have airbrushed some of Lady Liberty's face so we can see the profile better....See it?

looks like lincoln to me, but then again so did the JFK in image 1, I am probably not the best judge,  maybe Elvis crossed with Lincoln, Ok I have been up too long....

There's nothing about that head that is natural.  Her face looks like a sailboat or pirate ship.  The way her hair rests on her shoulders tells me these are significant clues... for an artist to go way out of his way to paint.  A more natural flow, I think, would have been easier.  Looks like Elvis Lincoln got scalped a little.  The shadow under her nose leads directly to the Statue of liberty.  It would take a huge statue way up high, unobstructed from anything else, to cast a shadow like that.  umm.  Are we to look in NJ?  Nah, we still have the Verrazano!

Okay...Is there an animal in the water foam? I see a kind of creature like a badger, a wolverine, an otter...a squirrel on steroids... It looks like it has its paws outstretched to the right. What do you think? AP

Squirrel on steroids....too funny but yes, I see what you are talking about now that you mentioned it but am not sure I would've otherwise.

animal painter wrote:: Okay...Is there an animal in the water foam? *snipped* I see a kind of creature like a badger, a wolverine, an otter...a squirrel on steroids... It looks like it has its paws outstretched to the right. What do you think? AP It looks like a koala bear to me.

If you look at the entire area of the water foam, it may even look like a dragon... AP

just saw this picture of integrity on top of the NYSE bldg. hxxp://www.forgottendelights.com/images ... diment.JPG here's another one: hxxp://piccies.flybywire.org.uk/General ... 6/NYSE.jpg

Unknown: just saw this picture of integrity on top of the NYSE bldg. I'm sorry....did you say integrity? on the STOCK EXCHANGE????

animal painter wrote:: Okay...Is there an animal in the water foam? I see a kind of creature like a badger, a wolverine, an otter...a squirrel on steroids... It looks like it has its paws outstretched to the right. What do you think? AP This is a good idea... the Charleston image has the University of South Carolina Mascot blurred into the Lion's forehead. Maybe other images show a local mascot image.

Kind of reminds me of the chinese dog/lion statues Maybe near Chinatown

Cormac, I can see a similarity AP

Info on that location.... Standing tall across the Manhattan Bridge, the Mahayana Buddhist temple is the largest Buddhist temple in New York City. Located at 133 Canal Street, Mahayana is one of the two primary sects of Buddhism, which place more emphasis on the teachings of Buddha. The temple was built to honor Mrs. Annie Ying’s 83rd birthday. Its main goal is the liberation and enlightenment of all conscious beings. Love, kindness, compassions are stressed in this form, and Mandarin is the main language used in the temple. The temple contains a sixteen foot golden statue of the Buddha sitting on a lotus, with a blue neon halo glowing behind him. It is one of the largest statues of Buddha in New York. Around the hall are numerous depictions of events in Buddha’s life. At the side of the entrance is a large golden incense holder burning incense before the image of Guan Yin (bodhisattva). There are also benches available for visitors to rest. Public services are held on weekends. It is usually carried out with all the formalities such as drums and bells. Fortunes are read inside the temple every day for a dollar. The exterior of the temple was inspired by Chinese architectural designs. Two giant golden lions protecting the temple from evil spirits guard the main doors. It is also customary for homes belonging to traditional Chinese families to be guarded by stone or bronze lions.

An Eagle on a Wave.... kinda covers the top and bottom of the picture. Is in Battery Park and may have a view of the Statue of Liberty EAST COAST MEMORIAL Battery Park Facing the Statue of Liberty across New York harbor, the East Coast Memorial is located at the southern end of Battery Park . This memorial honors the 4,601 missing American servicemen who lost their lives in the Atlantic Ocean while engaged in combat during World War II. Designed by the architectural firm of Gehron and Seltzer, the monument consists of a large, paved plaza punctuated by eight massive 19-foot tall gray granite pylons (four each on the southern and northern sides) onto which are inscribed the names, rank, organization and state of each of the deceased. On the eastern side of the plaza a monumental bronze eagle, sculpted by Albino Manca (1898–1976) and set on a pedestal of polished black granite, grips a laurel wreath over a wave--signifying the act of mourning at the watery grave. The monument was commissioned by the American Battle Monuments Commission (ABMC), a small independent agency of the executive branch of the United States federal government, and was dedicated by President John F. Kennedy (1917–1963) on May 23, 1963. The blue building behind the statue went up in 1988... looking for an image of the buildings behind around 1982 Here's another view

An Eagle on a Wave.... kinda covers the top and bottom of the picture. Is in Battery Park and may have a view of the Statue of Liberty EAST COAST MEMORIAL Battery Park Facing the Statue of Liberty across New York harbor, the East Coast Memorial is located at the southern end of Battery Park. This memorial honors the 4,601 missing American servicemen who lost their lives in the Atlantic Ocean while engaged in combat during World War II. Designed by the architectural firm of Gehron and Seltzer, the monument consists of a large, paved plaza punctuated by eight massive 19-foot tall gray granite pylons (four each on the southern and northern sides) onto which are inscribed the names, rank, organization and state of each of the deceased. On the eastern side of the plaza a monumental bronze eagle, sculpted by Albino Manca (1898–1976) and set on a pedestal of polished black granite, grips a laurel wreath over a wave--signifying the act of mourning at the watery grave. The monument was commissioned by the American Battle Monuments Commission (ABMC), a small independent agency of the executive branch of the United States federal government, and was dedicated by President John F. Kennedy (1917–1963) on May 23, 1963. The blue building behind the statue went up in 1988... looking for an image of the buildings behind around 1982 Here's another view

weve covered the eagle statue before, it post datest the book.

Cormac wrote:: Facing the Statue of Liberty across New York harbor, ... On the eastern side of the plaza a monumental bronze eagle, sculpted by Albino Manca (1898–1976) and set on a pedestal of polished black granite, grips a laurel wreath over a wave--signifying the act of mourning at the watery grave. The monument was commissioned by the American Battle Monuments Commission (ABMC), a small independent agency of the executive branch of the United States federal government, and was dedicated by President John F. Kennedy (1917–1963) on May 23, 1963. How does this postdate the park? I ran a search on eagle through the posts and didn't see coverage of the eagle postdating.... I've probably missed it.... could you please reference it for me? Thanks, Cormac

Cormac wrote:: Facing the Statue of Liberty across New York harbor, ... On the eastern side of the plaza a monumental bronze eagle, sculpted by Albino Manca (1898–1976) and set on a pedestal of polished black granite, grips a laurel wreath over a wave--signifying the act of mourning at the watery grave. The monument was commissioned by the American Battle Monuments Commission (ABMC), a small independent agency of the executive branch of the United States federal government, and was dedicated by President John F. Kennedy (1917–1963) on May 23, 1963. How does this postdate the park ? I ran a search on eagle through the posts and didn't see coverage of the eagle postdating.... I've probably missed it.... could you please reference it for me? Thanks, Cormac

Still wondering how the eagle postdates the park .... meanwhile on the other side of town.. I see skyline potential as well as a near match for the stained glass... and right across from a park .

Still wondering how the eagle postdates the park.... meanwhile on the other side of town.. I see skyline potential as well as a near match for the stained glass... and right across from a park.

The angle of the dangle is inversely proportional to the heat of the beat. I'm kinda liking the angle on this dangle...

nope you're correct eagle dates from 63. I swear somebody posted this eagle b4 and it then said it either was moved or placed later. but I guess I am wrong...

Been there, done that. Siskel and I went to all of the possible matches of Russian Orthodox churches in NYC and Brooklyn.  There was no place you could stand where you could even come close to matching the skyline in Image 12.  The closest match I ever saw was a church in Vancouver. As for the eagle, it looks good, but it is not a match.

hey guys, what about the church boogieman found in Bayonne, New Jersey?  Forest_blight posted pictures of it on page 15 of this thread. have u seen that one egbert, or been to it? it's the st. peter and Paul orthodox church on 98 w 28th street, bayonne, new jersey.

Just a "what if" It seems the dark rectangle has been assumed to be one of the twin towers... What has us thinking this, wouldn't there be 2 in the image? Then I got to thinking... there wouldn't be 2 if the angle of view put one behind the other.

good point cormac!

i think someone was looking for b4 and after pics of Battery Park, found some at this link hxxp://www.thebattery.org/rebuilding/

i think someone was looking for b4 and after pics of Battery Park , found some at this link hxxp://www.thebattery.org/rebuilding/

Cormac wrote:: Just a "what if" It seems the dark rectangle has been assumed to be one of the twin towers... What has us thinking this, wouldn't there be 2 in the image? Then I got to thinking... there wouldn't be 2 if the angle of view put one behind the other. If there were two, the artist would have given it away immediately.

forest_blight wrote:: Nice find boog! It's the closest match I've seen. This is Sts. Peter and Paul Orthodox Church in Bayonne, New Jersey at 98 W 28th St, Bayonne, NJ. hxxp://www.oca.org/DIRlisting.asp?SID=9&KEY=OCA-WA-BAYSPP This is located in NJ which would be south of the Statue of Liberty and behind her.  Slappy, you cannot see it from anywhere unless you are in Bayonne.  I've been there a few times. edit;  I do like that pic of the eagle in Battery park cormac, the side view especially.  Been there with V5 but why not revisit it with V10.  Can pretty much match up the verse already but that "one side of the v" line is killing me.  The isle of B is a tough one as well.

forest_blight wrote:: Nice find boog! It's the closest match I've seen. This is Sts. Peter and Paul Orthodox Church in Bayonne, New Jersey at 98 W 28th St, Bayonne, NJ. hxxp://www.oca.org/DIRlisting.asp?SID=9&KEY=OCA-WA-BAYSPP This is located in NJ which would be south of the Statue of Liberty and behind her.  Slappy, you cannot see it from anywhere unless you are in Bayonne.  I've been there a few times. edit;  I do like that pic of the eagle in Battery park cormac, the side view especially.  Been there with V5 but why not revisit it with V10.  Can pretty much match up the verse already but that "one side of the v" line is killing me.  The isle of B is a tough one as well.

This one is a pretty good match too.  I like how the onion dome in the center has decorative pillars to support it, which is hinted at in the silhouette in the image. It's the St. Nicholas Russian Orthodox Church on E 97th.

Only that one seems to have seven domes, six that you can see in the pic.

In Image 12 the building is a silouette... If you squint your eyes to see the picture as a silouette you only see 3 domes against the skyline the others are hidden by the shape of the building

Either way, the onion-dome building should be a relatively easy landmark to identify for this solution. There aren't that many orthodox churches in the New York area.

If you can still consider this for the domes like we have in the past, and i guess you can, than you have everything in the image seen from Battery park.  The Ellis Island domes, the arch from the Verrazano, the Statue of Liberty, the eagle from the memorial, the twin tower, the water, the square clock at the heliport...All we got to do is match it up with verse10.  Easy!!!!  Not.

If you can still consider this for the domes like we have in the past, and i guess you can, than you have everything in the image seen from Battery park .  The Ellis Island domes, the arch from the Verrazano, the Statue of Liberty, the eagle from the memorial, the twin tower, the water, the square clock at the heliport...All we got to do is match it up with verse10.  Easy!!!!  Not.

Here is another domed church in NYC. It has 3 domes...St. Jean Baptiste Church... just East  of (Olmstead's) Central Park... and south of the Bronx. (Look North to the Isle of B.) The smaller domes have a bump-out on their very tops, like image 12.  But they do not have as much of the "onion" shape.

Here is another domed church in NYC. It has 3 domes...St. Jean Baptiste Church... just East  of (Olmstead's) Central Park ... and south of the Bronx. (Look North to the Isle of B.) The smaller domes have a bump-out on their very tops, like image 12.  But they do not have as much of the "onion" shape.

In 1784, he founded the Bank of New York, now the oldest ongoing banking organization in the United States, and was also instrumental, along with John Jay, in the revitalization of King's College, which had been severely crippled by the war and discredited for its Tory affiliations, as Columbia College. His public career resumed when he attended the Annapolis Convention as a delegate in 1786 and drafted its resolution for a Constitutional convention. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/bootbearwdc/359047222/ I dont know why but I stumbled on this while looking for pictures of St John Baptiste.  The Bank of New York was founded by Alexander Hamilton and that bank sits on the edge of Battery Park , at the entrance to the Brooklyn-Battery tunnel.  At the opposite side of the park there is the Hamilton Customs House.  Wonder if we can find some Hard Word on that bank....

In 1784, he founded the Bank of New York, now the oldest ongoing banking organization in the United States, and was also instrumental, along with John Jay, in the revitalization of King's College, which had been severely crippled by the war and discredited for its Tory affiliations, as Columbia College. His public career resumed when he attended the Annapolis Convention as a delegate in 1786 and drafted its resolution for a Constitutional convention. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/bootbearwdc/359047222/ I dont know why but I stumbled on this while looking for pictures of St John Baptiste.  The Bank of New York was founded by Alexander Hamilton and that bank sits on the edge of Battery Park, at the entrance to the Brooklyn-Battery tunnel.  At the opposite side of the park there is the Hamilton Customs House.  Wonder if we can find some Hard Word on that bank....

bigmattyh wrote:: Either way, the onion-dome building should be a relatively easy landmark to identify for this solution. There aren't that many orthodox churches in the New York area. That assumes the church is in NY.  Am I the only one who still thinks this is Vancouver? hxxp://www.holyres.org/ "Him of Hard word" I believe is a reference to the Warren Harding monument in Vancouver.

Egbert wrote:: That assumes the church is in NY.  Am I the only one who still thinks this is Vancouver? I see a 74 and a backwards 41 in the water. The 74 is clearer than the 41 -- which I see just above the 74 -- but they're definitely there. Can't find any more numbers than that, but 74 and 41 would be two sides of a bounding box around NYC. As to which verse goes with this one... dunno.

Egbert wrote:: That assumes the church is in NY.  Am I the only one who still thinks this is Vancouver? hxxp://www.holyres.org/ "Him of Hard word" I believe is a reference to the Warren Harding monument in Vancouver. I think so Egbert.  Besides what seems obvious to me, I like what BigMatt had to say.  I wish I could convince you.  What a boost that would be....The way I read the verse, i think the man of hard word would have to be an Indies native anyway. Vancouver AP (S)          49° 11' N    123° 10' W

The domes in the picture look something like the domes of the Haupt house in the New York Botanical Gardens. But not ENOUGH like them. I spent a fruitless day searching through pics of the B. G. and came up empty. Besides, it's a garden , which probably means it's not there (according to the rules). I think too much stock is being put into these domes. I have looked up every onion-domed church in NYC, and the surrounding area, and have come up with nothing matching. Much like the box castle in p. 11. And I've come to the conclusion that perhaps these images that appear in the pictures, like the castle and these domes, are NOT meant to match exactly. What says "Russian" more than a couple of onion domes? (Besides the hammer and sickle, that is?)  Not much. Everyone would associate them with Russia. So perhaps they are only meant to mean "Russia" and not a specific place, then? And if so, then where is the most Russian thing in New York? Probably the Russian Tea Room on W. 57th. Nothing in the actual restaurant suggests anything in the picture, but perhaps the location is important.

there is also brighton beach: hxxp://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/pavem ... y-the-sea/ just something "russian" ...haven't looked there except long time ago when i was hooked on coney island.

Could this be the face in hidden in Liberty's dress? The National Museum of the American Indian, George Gustav Heye Center, is located at One Bowling Green adjacent to the northeast corner of Battery Park, New York, New York

Could this be the face in hidden in Liberty's dress? The National Museum of the American Indian, George Gustav Heye Center, is located at One Bowling Green adjacent to the northeast corner of Battery Park , New York, New York

i was all into that for awhile cormac...but i believe it wasn't here until after 1982, that's why i dropped it, was i mistaken? is that the alexander hamilton custom house? i just found this cormac: "In 2004, the museum at the Mall opened.(washington, dc) There are two more facilities united under the name of NMAI: the George Gustav Heye Center New York that opened in 1994, to not completely remove the collection and the museum idea from its home location New York City, and the collecting and research house in Maryland, Suitland, that opened in 1999 (c" but that indian on the building.....i like it

The Museum  and GGHC opened too late... but the building they are housed in is a much earlier NY landmark. The architecture was there with 4 statues depicting different continents. The American one has a Native American Indian theme, with an Indian in the background and Nat-Am Potery behind the right part of the statue... though not seen in the picture The George Gustav Heye Center is the branch in New York City of the National Museum of the American Indian, which is part of the Smithsonian Institution. The center is named for George Gustav Heye. The collection features contemporary and historical exhibits of art and artifacts by and about Native Americans. The collection is housed at the Alexander Hamilton U.S. Custom House on Bowling Green in lower Manhattan . The Beaux Arts-style building, designed by architect Cass Gilbert, was completed in 1907 . It is a designated National Historic Landmark and a New York City landmark.

guys, do you think there is any way this image goes to florida? just listen, ok? for one thing, verse 9 (which has to be FOY, with the First Chapter written in water)......."like moondrops in teardrops"..........look at the teardrops in the image.... and, that could be "29" on her right arm....... and, um. that's about all i have because i just now thought of this [me=slappybuns]dodges the  onslaught[/me]

at this point in time i would have to say that this p does not go to florida. mainly because of the images that scream ny & also because of the near perfect outline of florida in the other p. anything & everything is possible until the treasure is found though.

Yes and the only visible numbers in the picture seem to be 74 and 41 (14) -- which would be two of the coordinates that bound NYC.

In the wave/seafoam form... that looks like a chinese foo dog statue to me... what would be the toes on the bottom foot on the right... looks like a 1  to me  with a 5 just a little further right so we could have a 1, 5, or 15

I believe some people have referred to the odd color blindness test windows as mosiacs.  Well, while researching Riverside Park after reading Kato's ideas, I came across this: hxxp://www.cityarts.org/images/grants_t ... nypost.jpg

Not sure how long these have been there.....

i had seen those b4, but i had it under image 9: Re: image 9 by slappybuns ... ... but then again...i go see all these mosaic benches at grant's tomb ....(which goes  ... ...  image 12) hxxp://mosaicartsource.wordpress.com/2007/02/01/ ... ... -tomb-mosaics-new-york-city/ which has these eagles  ... that article said the mosaics were done in 1973 i think.

One of these things is not like the others, One of these things just doesn't belong, Can you tell which thing is not like the others By the time I finish my song? Did BP give us an "X marks the spot"? This little spot has been bugging me... Here's the next part of the idea....  x doesn't mark the spot...  3x actually marks the spot If you were to find a semi-circular piece of ground that you believed was the spot here is how I would measure to the spot... The image starts off already dividing the width by half then fourth... half of that gives us our unit of measurement  (  or "x" )  (also 1/8th the total length) Multiply this by 3 puts us at the approximate height of the spot

Cormac wrote:: meanwhile on the other side of town.. This brings me back (again) to McCarren Park Looking at the stained glass windows we have nearly exact shapes I then found something else quite interesting from a video filmed in McCarren Park . I've paused and cropped images from the video where we can see that church... Look in the background !  (it gave me the shivers) You can see that the church could have easily blocked one of the towers from view leaving our single tower.

Now... how do we connect my last two posts... I appologize in advance that I have to skip protocol and use a verse here. Verse 1 "Perspective should not be lost" Keep the church blocking one of the towers "In the center of four alike" Between the church and McCarren Pool Entrance are 4 tennis courts that were there at the time and can still be seen by google maps or google earth. These tennis courts have a strip of grass between them that is the exact same shape as the #12 image as a whole. "Small, split" Toward the church from this point is another piece of grass separated from the first by sidewalk that is the same shape as the stain-glass area of the image. "A whistle sounds" Could reference wistles blown from the track behind the tennis courts or the pool area beyond that (depending when the pool actually closed as a swimming pool. In the pictures below also note the part of the park in the triangle between the tennis courts and the church. This area is now called "Father Jerzy Popieluszko Square" It was renamed and a few monuments where added after the book was published but the shape of the "square" (triangle) has not changed since the 1930s.  In the center of this is another shape similar to our image 12.

Cormac wrote:: Now... how do we connect my last two posts... I appologize in advance that I have to skip protocol and use a verse here. Verse 1 "Perspective should not be lost" Keep the church blocking one of the towers "In the center of four alike" Between the church and McCarren Pool Entrance are 4 tennis courts that were there at the time and can still be seen by google maps or google earth. These tennis courts have a strip of grass between them that is the exact same shape as the #12 image as a whole. "Small, split" Toward the church from this point is another piece of grass separated from the first by sidewalk that is the same shape as the stain-glass area of the image. "A whistle sounds" Could reference wistles blown from the track behind the tennis courts or the pool area beyond that (depending when the pool actually closed as a swimming pool. This is all very solid reasoning.....but, you left out the most important lines of V1: "Our strongest tower of delight" which ties directly to Hermann leading us directly to Hermann Park in Houston which just so happens to have to old locomotive "Nine eight two". BP has confirmed that there is a casque in Hermann Park {right wilhouse?} and if so, I can't see how any other V would get us there except for V1.

I like the reasoning as well.  great pics cormac! I read this post yesterday and have been trying to match it with v10 ever since.  Nothing solid yet.  Still looking for the "Ah Ha" moment....

Interesting stuff, but V1 goes with Houston.  I suppose it's technically up for debate, since the casque wasn't found (and probably won't ever be found), but it's the closest thing to a solve as there has been without actually turning up a treasure.

Yep, I'm with you matty...that is what I meant by my post.

Has anyone seen the Fort Hamilton triangle in person? The bird at the top look awfully familiar like the one in the image, but I can't see close enough from this pic. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/626 ... 164131264/

bemo12 wrote:: Has anyone seen the Fort Hamilton triangle in person? The bird at the top look awfully familiar like the one in the image, but I can't see close enough from this pic. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/626 ... 164131264/ What is closer to the image as a whole is the Fort Hamilton Seal. Google it.

boogieman, i really really feel, the mosaics are the bus stops, (train stops, subways) hxxp://nycsubway.org/articles/indcolor.html and, i really really feel the green and red and brown and yellow in the fair folks guide is for the bus stops, or train or whatever. not sure if it helps in anyway, 'cause not sure how to read the image, but i think the stop around walt whitman park is violet and grape......which makes me think of the first mosaics in the image

I really can't say too much about the stops or stations until I get over there to check it out.  A while back I posted a pic of a cream and maroon clored subway car from 1980 that was at the Hamilton station.  Never made anything of it. I will look for these things for you....After I dig on the west side of the flagpost.

i hope it is right there by the flagpole boogieman! poke the north side too! it will be so SWEET if you get one! the verse seems to take you right there. i'm going to visit my family the end of this week and will be pretty busy, but i'll be sure to keep checking, hoping you've got it! good luck to you!

slappybuns wrote:: boogieman, i really really feel, the mosaics are the bus stops, (train stops, subways) It's an interesting theory.  Be sure to use the color system in use at the time.  I've found one from 1978 on that site hxxp://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.p ... system.gif "The 1978 map also shows each line in its own color. Major changes: elimination of the K train and the elimination of the 5, 6 and SS service from South Ferry; C and E terminal switch. Hand drawn by Michael Calcagno." link and quote come from hxxp://www.nycsubway.org/maps/historical.html

boogieman wrote:: I will look for these things for you....After I dig on the west side of the flagpost. When are you going on your dig?  I wish you the very best of luck and will say my prayers to the Treasure Gods for you.  Don't forget my simple request if you do find the darn thing.

fox wrote:: When are you going on your dig?  I wish you the very best of luck and will say my prayers to the Treasure Gods for you.  Don't forget my simple request if you do find the darn thing. One bag of Rhapsodic man's soil for you sir.

cormac got me onto this.....Reply #435 on: December 10, 2008, 09:14:26 am Could this be the face in hidden in Liberty's dress? George Gustav Heye Center, is located at One Bowling Green hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i ... ic=754.435 i was trying to fig out what bowling green was or what the street  name for the isle of B if you click on square,for bowling green, in the click map link... see pic below of bowling green from pic, for click map this is what you will read Bowling Green (New York, NY (Manhattan)) New York City's Bowling Green is the oldest park space in the city. The park is bordered by Broadway on both sides, but the west side becomes State St and the east side becomes Whitehall St. At it's north end sits the famous Bull statue and the plaza on the south side has the canopied entrance to the Bowling Green subway station. The Alexander Hamilton US Customs House (Cass Gilbert, 1907) faces the park on the south side. The park dates from the 1630s. Before the American Revolution (1770) an equestrian statue of King George the III dressed in Roman clothing stood on this site. On July 9, 1776 after the Declaration of Independence was read to Washington's troops at the current site of City Hall, the lead statue was toppled amd shipped to Connecticut to be melted down into bullets. link to click map hxxp://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.7034157&lo ... =0&m=a&v=2 thinking the casque is at battery park,have not pin pointed it though i think the walls, would look like the tower in pic 12, if seen from the Statue of Liberty..........sorry looks like pic got cut off for tower in p12 14 pic down eagle hxxp://www.thebattery.org/battery/monuments.php veiw from battery / Statue of Liberty hxxp://www.thebattery.org/battery/timeline.php

If the odd rectangular thing in P12 isn't one of the Twin Towers, then I really like your idea of it being one of the inscribed pylons in Battery Park. Referring to Bowling Green cw said "The park is bordered by Broadway on both sides".  Looking at the above pic he included, Bowling Green could indeed be considered an island and when bordered by Broadway...couldn't it be an "isle of b"?  Don't panic yet Boogie...I am still with you on the JPJ Park idea.  I am not sure but wouldn't Bowling Green be pretty much due north from JPJ?  The V doesn't specifically say look at {or physically see} the isle of b...it says gaze towards it, or, basically look north.

No panic here.  I like the way Battery Park may fit.  But let me and bemo tear up JPJ park first. Still, if we don't find it there, CW, you are going to have to go line by line with the verse to direct us where to dig at the Battery. The grey giant, the slender path, (notice it doesn't read "A slender path".)  If you are going to find the Verrazano from the WTC in Manhattan, why would you come all the way back to Manhattan from Brooklyn?  It can be done, just how?

boogieman wrote:: No panic here.  I like the way Battery Park may fit.  But let me and bemo tear up JPJ park first. Still, if we don't find it there, CW, you are going to have to go line by line with the verse to direct us where to dig at the Battery. The grey giant, the slender path, (notice it doesn't read "A slender path".)  If you are going to find the Verrazano from the WTC in Manhattan, why would you come all the way back to Manhattan from Brooklyn?  It can be done, just how? ok you guys dig and ill work on plan b im hoping your right i would love to see another found

for some reason, and it's probably from reading the fair folks guide (BP talks about mies van der rohe), that one tower makes me think of the seagram building on park avenue: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagram_Building now i'll try to see what color the subway lines are for that building

slappy links to the tiled/mosaic, train signs hxxp://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/ori ... nal28.html hxxp://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/ori ... inal2.html

those are great, cw! found it interesting that on one of the pictures he mentioned the sad look of the face of the eagle. i'm wondering if her black hair being inside that beige  block means anything, or the brown color of the clock, or maybe even the light blue line that outlines all the blocks. hopefully knowing the subway lines and colors will not be necessary for the solve at jpj park

in case boogie hasnt dug it up yet, he might try this plan b for casque i think i have found a link in battery park for the casque site, i think this part of the v And see simple roots In rhapsodic man's soil is referring to peter minuit/ pronounced like the minuet waltz Legacy Peter Minuit is commemorated by Peter Minuit Plaza, north of the Whitehall Ferry Terminal; by a marker in Inwood Hill Park at the supposed site of the actual purchase of Manhattan; by a granite flagstaff base in Battery Park, which depicts the historic purchase; by a school and playground in East Harlem; by the Peter Minuit Chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution; and by a memorial on Moltkestraße in Wesel, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. He was played by Groucho Marx in the film The Story of Mankind. the above found under LEGACY here hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Minuit Or gaze north Toward the isle of B. / i think this would be bowling green From the middle of one branch Of the v Look down i think this means the 3 arms on the flagstaff,they would form a V scroll down, a pic here. not to sure on this as it, is a concrete area and not sure if, walking the 22 steps for the hr. would be enough for a dig site hxxp://www.thebattery.org/battery/monuments.php In the shadow Of the grey giant and this part of v maybe the T Towers or this hxxp://travel.webshots.com/photo/294903 ... 4010IkqeHJ found some domes/ i think mentioned b4 The Immigration Museum at the Ellis Island National Monument could this be the domes in pic hxxp://img2.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/ ... a1c86.jpeg another view and story hxxp://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19206 if the robed lady is not liberty then, she could be this/ i think was mentioned b4 a Statue of St. Elizabeth Ann Shrine of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Church of Our Lady of the Rosary 7 State Street New York, NY 10004 ... hxxp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GLfZG0Cd4L8/S ... G_1422.JPG another look hxxp://www.greatwhatsit.com/wp-content/ ... street.jpg i think all these places except, the domes, and if it is liberty are on the north side of park. cars and whirring sound, is prob the tunnel, on the north side of park, and the vols. is prob volume as in size maybe 3 different size plaques/ or sides with writing on the flagstaff base/monument ill see if i can find some better pics of the flagstaff monument the colored windows, may have been something, there or near by but ny has done a lot of renewal in the park, and surrounding areas since the 80s, so that could be gone

cw0909 - I think your Peter Minuit idea is inspired.

I like the Battery Park location much better than JPJ park, but... what are the "simple roots?" And why is he(Minuit) "rhapsodic?" And where are the mosaics? I don't think the domes match, either. I do like the concrete squares & V-shaped memorial however.

yep without being there its hard to see how well it all matches maybe boogie or someone could take a look see, sometime ------------------------------------------ I like the Battery Park location much better than JPJ park, but... what are the " simple roots ?" And why is he( Minuit ) "rhapsodic?" maybe bp was taking literary license, as the simple start of NY and the minuet waltz is music=peters last name / minuit and music is thought of as rhapsodic sometimes

oh wow, cw, that is great! i love the word play!

hxxp://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collect ... P11558.jpg This is all gone.  Whatever memorial was there has been moved, at least about three years ago.  I was looking around the Battery for V5 back in 06'-07'.  Lots of pics but nothing on Minuit.

boogieman wrote:: hxxp://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collect ... P11558.jpg This is all gone.  Whatever memorial was there has been moved, at least about three years ago.  I was looking around the Battery for V5 back in 06'-07'.  Lots of pics but nothing on Minuit. booge this monument in link for flicker below its near the sphere i think its still there, i saw pics someplace on the net for last year. will see if i can find them again i could be wrong i remember seeing construction near there for the tunnel will have to check some text from link When the park was closed from 1940 to 1952 for renovations and to build the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel, the monument was relocated to its present site at the northeast entrance. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/332157206/ minuit purchased the island/new york hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Minuit

Hmmmm...spent some time on the Battery park site last night looking for matching stuff, but didn't find much. I do like the pylons at the East Coast memorial, though, for the V. However, I don't buy the Minuet/Minuit/rhapsody connection at all. "Rhapsodic" can also refer to epic poetry. There was, however, something that DID strike a chord (forgive me) and that was Castle Clinton. If you Wiki the term, you will find out that a large number of people involved in music came through it when it was an immigrant processing station. But rhapsodic? nah...it doesn't really get there for me. I was hoping that we could find some connection with either a poet (other than Emma Lazarus) or with Gershwin. But I didn't spend enough researching time on that connection.

ck thats an idea, i remember reading something to do with a writer, not sure the writer was a poet anyway something to do with one of the monuments ill look for it, and get back if i find it again

does anyone know bps' office address in N.Y./ or where his office was found it not a poet John Wolfe Ambrose Memorial Dedicated June 1, 1936 Description: Stele with bust; portrait sculpture of the Irish–American scientist and writer. Donor/Source: Mrs. George F. Shrady, daughter Fabricator/Sculptor: Bust: Andrew O–Connor, Jr.; pedestal relief: Frederick George Richard Roth. Architect: Aymar Embury II hxxp://www.thebattery.org/battery/monuments.php

i had an out there idea, which was maybe pic 12 is the first casque bp buried, since his office is in NY, so that would be his start point, so i went to look see and found this church across the street Serbian Orthodox Cathedral of St. Sava‎ look at pics,b4 and after hxxp://stsavanyc.org/photo/2006/2006-11 ... img57.html hxxp://www.stsavanyc.org/ Byron Preiss Visual Pub Inc‎ aka Byron Preiss Multimedia Co., Inc. 24 West 25th Street New York, NY 10010 in the google map link, click on the pic of truck, if you walk down to where, the front and back of trucks are that would be west, and look at building youll see the address on it. if you turn around and look behind you youll see the church hxxp://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=na ... e&resnum=1 i know the spires dont look exactly like pic, maybe the key here is the word Orthodox, so we would be looking for that hxxp://stsavanyc.org/photo/2006/2006-11 ... img12.html i know no mosaics, so prob im wrong, but colored hxxp://stsavanyc.org/photo/2006/2006-11 ... img54.html nice old pic, i dont think its from the 80s though hxxp://stsavanyc.org/photo/2006/2006-11 ... img25.html at the secret wiki, you can see not really dead on, but close enough that you know your right hxxp://thesecret.pbwiki.com/4_site hxxp://thesecret.pbwiki.com/5_site

hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/feeney57/538771545/ hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/feeney57/5 ... otostream/ This is the Old Met Life Tower seen from Madison Square Park (not the Square Garden), which is down the street from BP's office.  Could be our clock. Would have to find another verse for the solve to be near 25th Street, I believe.  V10 would have to be JPJ Park or the Battery.

Regarding the clock: CON:  This clock does not have roman numerals  (if that matters) PROs:  The clock is the same concrete color as the picture, with it's decorative edges does give it a basic square shape, and the Archways above the clock match the outlining frame of the picture exactly. Nice find. What in our other clues might be seen from that building?

does anyone remember the discussion on the directions from start point was it turn right, go straight, turn left, or the other way, i tried to find it, couldnt on the map if you go right, with your back to office, you can turn left at 6th, which becomes ave of america, then church, then turns into trinity, greenwich, to battery, i followed it on the walk in google, the street chances are, bare to right and left but it is a straight shot, no left or right turns i didnt do broadway but i think, you could do that way too, would just change the right and left turns

bigmattyh said: yes in the two found instance you travel several miles along a road without turning from an iconic image in the painting. Then you turn left and left again to reach the destination... and boogieman said this: If you put that theory to verse10, use the WTC tower two as the iconic image, go south on Washington street about 1/2 a mile to 3/4 of a mile and you come to Battery Park. Make a left, two blocks to the end. Make another left and it takes you to Bowling Green Park across from the US Customs House.   Wallah! this was under the "general questions" thread

thanks slappy i couldnt remember the start point ie... iconic image sometimes the brain works sometimes not LOL

Yeah!  Thanks slappy. I forgot about that one myself.  I'm going out to JJP this week.  Maybe Thursday... Then maybe I'll have to jump into Battery Park, or Madison Square park.

boogie this pic still showsthe monument flagstaff still there the link for pic where i got the pic hxxp://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/ ... ing-green/ some text on pg Updated, 5:15 p.m. | Bowling Green, the uneven gated ellipse at the foot of Broadway, evokes history more than most spots in New York City. Legend has it — though historians give the legend almost no credence — that Indian tribal leaders used the land for meetings and to negotiate the sale of Manhattan to Peter Minuit in 1626. What is known is that the site was a parade ground and cattle market in the Dutch era, which essentially ended with the British conquest of 1664. a clock tower at pier A at battery hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/capedcrusa ... 1/sizes/o/

boogieman wrote:: Yeah!  Thanks slappy. I forgot about that one myself.  I'm going out to JJP this week.  Maybe Thursday... Then maybe I'll have to jump into Battery Park, or Madison Square park. go boogie go planing on digging? luck to you

That flagstaff is totally surrounded with concrete.  I have close-ups of from 06'.  I'll see if I can find them.

boogie is there more concrete, than the 22 steps twice as many as the hr had a second thought, it may not have looked like that b4 they put the sphere there or some of the other construction, that was done b4 the sphere

cw0909 wrote:: a clock tower at pier A at battery hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/capedcrusa ... 1/sizes/o/ looking closer at your Pier A at Battery clock tower... Roman Numerals Grey in color Square background around the face Arch below the clock matches the arched frame around the image If you look at the bottom of the pic to the left of the tower base (below the letters "DIR" in "direct.com") you see an arch similar to the stained glass arch in our image. (wish I had a better picture of that section)

Here is a better picture and link: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/wallyg/3485344 ... waterfront

We have been through all of this before.  No doubt, Battery Park fits image12 better than JPJ Park.  The clock is the closest thing I've ever seen and have have looked at a lot of them.  But the verse...... I wonder... I've noticed a lot of the image has things reversed in it.  The backwards NJ in the shoulder, Lady Liberty's face compared to the real thing, even down to the shadow under her nose.  I wonder if you can see a mirror image or reflection of the harbor and the statue from the glass window of the clock tower. It would be nice if the message in the water at the bottom of the image read PIER A.

and yet another clock tower, not sure this one looks the same now this pic shows what it looked like in the 80s hxxp://www.nyc-architecture.com/SOH/SOH022.htm

Something tells me that we will be finding clock towers ALL over NYC

fox wrote:: Something tells me that we will be finding clock towers ALL over NYC   :-\ In regard to the Pier A clock, this was a common style used at the time. If it was still around in the '80s, I am sure you could find an example to point to. I commuted to and from NY for fourteen years.  I do not have a photo of this, but I believe the clock to be closer to the one on on the Water Street Heliport. This heliport has a clock face on two sides of the building (street side and water side) The key is (if I remember) that it only have the four roman numerals (XII, III, VI, IX) rather than all tweleve. Regardless of the exact clock picture, we can all agree (hopefully) tjhat it will be found fronting water.

What grabbed me most about that picture was the arched window below the clock. The shape matches the frame of the picture. I have only seen that shape in one other place... (which I still like better) An arial veiw of the little (triangle shaped) "square" attached to McCarren park across the street from the church that blocked the view of one of the twin towers that also has the domes that are close match to the picture and has the stained glass window which shape exactly matches that of the stained glass window in the picture. Though I can not prove a verse match... I would be poking there if I had time to get up to NY.

This is just a suggestion from someone not at all familiar with the area, or the attractions, OR the research done on this verse and picture--but-- Perhaps, like the imagery in p. 2, perhaps the DOMES are not meant to be taken literally--but are simply the picture for the word domes, in the same way that the pear was the picture for the "pearman bridge"? Is there anything nearby that could be called a "dome"? Anything at all? Even something like the Dome -icile of someone? Or the name of some institution that has the word "dome" in it--like the DOME-inion Gas Company? (Dominion) Just asking. These items seem to be among the most elusive of the images in this p.

Reposting a relevant comment relating to Image 12 from slappybuns Re: General Questions « Reply #357 on: July 11, 2009, 10:43:30 » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- if the shape of the park is somewhere in the images, like the Fountain of Youth park in florida, then i think the golden gate park in san francisco has to be it for image 1, and i'm wondering since, the lady in image 12 reminds me so much of the shape of prospect park in new york, maybe that's the place......?

I like slappybuns' idea ... not only because f the shape of the bottom of the lady's dress is so similar to that of the shape of the park, ... but it also gets us across the water at Manhattan Bridge and could confirm the "foo dog" in the wave (the foo dog idea I posted previously can be found at a Buddhist Temple in Chinatown New York at 113 Canal Street ...basically the beginning of the bridge)

Trohn wrote:: In regard to the Pier A clock, this was a common style used at the time. If it was still around in the '80s, I am sure you could find an example to point to. I commuted to and from NY for fourteen years.  I do not have a photo of this, but I believe the clock to be closer to the one on on the Water Street Heliport. This heliport has a clock face on two sides of the building (street side and water side) The key is (if I remember) that it only have the four roman numerals (XII, III, VI, IX) rather than all tweleve. Regardless of the exact clock picture, we can all agree (hopefully) tjhat it will be found fronting water. trohn did you mean this one hxxp://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5721912&nseq=54

!

The general outline of Prospect Park is a good match Slappy.....very intresting

thanks guys

slap here is an interactive map of prospect park brooklyn im not sure where you see this though, increase zoom more options hxxp://www.prospectpark.org/visit/interactive_map was this v-10 ? been to long

cw, you ole pirate , good to cya yes, we have been using verse 10 with this image because of "the slender path", being the Narrows bridge. something about the shape of the park reminds me of the shape of the lady haven't had much time to research lately, have to use my old notes, going to try to get back into the hunt. kato, you in new york? boogieman, you still with us? ck, you doing okay now? no hunts this summer? forest_blight? missed all u guys! seems like i remember looking at this park b4 because of something in the book about "siegfried's line of defense", not sure if i'm recalling it right, thinking maybe "lions" or "line of defense, and i think the long meadow was the "line of defense", not sure.  and i remember that i felt the book was just giving hints of everything that would be in the certain parks.  seems there was something about "back behind the president" or the "president's back", something like that.......and something about the "laffer curve", which something i can't quite recall when i was researching before, that there was a road or something called "laffer".  can't remember, got to go back and find all that stuff.

OK...... check this out... Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native The Montauk Club:  Ste A, 25 8th Ave, Brooklyn, NY‎ - (718) 638-0800‎ (just off the northern edge of Prospect Park to to me could = "Nearby") The Montauk Club is a slice of Victoriana that would be pretentious if it weren’t so enjoyable and fun to view when walking past. The club itself was established in 1889 as a “gentleman’s social club”; a plaque at the front entrance describes its (completed in) 891 building at 8th Avenue and Lincoln Place as modeled by architect Francis Kimball after the Ca’ d’Oro in Venice. There is a lengthy frieze above the third floor depicting the “exploits of the Montauk Indians”, as the plaque puts it, in terra cotta. Here's a pic of the building so you can't miss it...

Next line... The natives still speak Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols. Isaac Asimov Isaac Asimov was born in Petrovichi in Smolensk Oblast, RSFSR (now Russia)   His family emigrated to the United States when he was three years old. Growing up in Brooklyn, New York, Asimov taught himself to read at the age of five, and remained fluent in Yiddish as well as English. His parents owned a succession of candy stores, (the last was at 174 Windsor Place, between Fuller Place and 10th Avenue... very close to the park ) and everyone in the family was expected to work in them. Most of his popularized science books explain scientific concepts in a historical way, going as far back as possible to a time when the science in question was at its simplest stage. He often provides nationalities, birth dates, and death dates for the scientists he mentions, as well as etymologies and pronunciation guides for technical terms . Examples include his Guide to Science, the three volume set Understanding Physics , Asimov's Chronology of Science and Discovery, as well as numerous works on astronomy, mathematics, the Bible, William Shakespeare's works and, of course, chemistry subjects. Understanding Physics is a non-fiction book written by Isaac Asimov, originally published in 1966. It is considered to be a reader-friendly informational guide regarding the fields of physics and chemistry, written for lay people. It is one of several science guides by Asimov. The book is divided into three volumes , each of which have also been published separately as books. They are: • Motion, Sound, and Heat • Light, Magnetism, and Electricity • The Electron, Proton, and Neutron A good hike south of the park is a school named after him           PS 099 Isaac Asimov   1120 East  10 Street   Brooklyn, NY 11230 Not sure of relevant dates regarding the school or it's name. Here are the various addresses around Brooklyn he lived or worked in his father's candy stores... -   When the Asimov family came to the United States in 1923, they moved into their first apartment at 425 Van Siclen Avenue, in the East New York section of Brooklyn. -   In the summer of 1925 they moved one block away to an apartment at 434 Miller Avenue. -   They moved half a mile eastward in December 1928 to another apartment at 651 Essex Street, above the second candy store bought by his father. -   In early 1933, they moved to an apartment on Church Avenue, -   and after a brief stay there they moved to an apartment above yet another family candy store, at 1312 Decatur Street, in the Ridgewood section of Brooklyn. -   In December of 1936, Asimov's father sold his third candy store and bought his fourth, at 174 Windsor Place, (between Fuller Place and 10th Avenue), and the family moved to a house across the street. -   After completing military service and his work as a chemist with the government during WW 2, he returned to the states in May, and after his discharge from the army in July, he and his wife Gertrude moved into a small apartment in Brooklyn on 213 Dean Street in September 1946. -   In September of 1947 they moved to the downstairs apartment of his parents' house on Windsor Place. He later lived in Manhattan, Philadelphia, and Boston. Isaac Asimov could also be our connection to the  "Russian" Orthodox Church in the picture.

In rhapsodic man's soil ... Prospect Park's Concert Grove possesses a rich collection of historic bronze sculptures. Three were donated by United German Singers of Brooklyn as trophies won in the national Saengerfest choral competitions. These works include Henry Baerer’s bust Ludwig von Beethoven (1894), Augustus Mueller’s Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1897) and Chester Beach’s Karl Maria Von Weber (1909).

hmmm, i just saw lefferts homestead, and i wonder if that's why i remember "laffer's curve" in my defense, i feel strongly BP played with words. here's another clock, i think it's on the SE side of the park: (bottom of the page) hxxp://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/Fra ... nklin.html this one you have to scroll down a bit hxxp://www.planetplg.com/3b2b.htm the bond bread clock tower

A very close look at the inverted flower in Image 12 perhaps reveals the well hidden and elusive "41" latitude that would clearly link this Image to New York City. With the "74" longitude inscribed on the foamy churning waters, the "41"  latitude on the flower strongly indicates New York City. (The actual longitude and latitude of New York City is: Latitude: 40.71027777  Longitude: 73.88499999, or to round off: 41 latitude, 74 longitude.

A very close look at the inverted flower in Image 12 perhaps reveals the well hidden and elusive "41" latitude that would clearly link this Image to New York City. With the "74" longitude inscribed on the foamy churning waters, the "41" latitude on the flower strongly indicates New York City. (The actual longitude and latitude of New York City is: Latitude: 40.71027777  Longitude: 73.88499999, or to round off: 41 latitude  74 longitude.

wow, kato, i'd never noticed that! would brooklyn still fall in this block of latitude and longitude? it was something like 73.3............can't make that into 74...

Excellent find, Kato!

kato great find slappy my cuz thinks, we are pirates, still checking, on that been busy, still busy for a few more weeks found this site, a show and tell of new york city maybe you guys will see something, that connects hxxp://www.museumplanet.com/location.php/nyc/0

Cormac wrote:: In rhapsodic man's soil ... Prospect Park's Concert Grove possesses a rich collection of historic bronze sculptures. Three were donated by United German Singers of Brooklyn as trophies won in the national Saengerfest choral competitions. These works include Henry Baerer’s bust Ludwig von Beethoven (1894), Augustus Mueller’s Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1897) and Chester Beach’s Karl Maria Von Weber (1909). I now think that this prevous post I left is misleading.  Explanation in Verse 10 post.

I don't know if this is relevant, but I found these images on the side of Booth Theater. Which is in Manhattan and right on 8th ave pretty much, named after Edwin Booth. I haven't read anything where the theater was mentioned. Sorry for the quality of the image...they are the best I could find, but they look very similar to the woman in P12.

Hello all, I'm new obviously.  I bought this book back in the eighties because I liked the faeries.  (I was 8 or 9).  At any rate I have looked at it off and on for years whenever I visit my folks.  This last time, I brought it home with me and started reading everyone's posts. I live in NYC so image 12 has a special appeal to me. I haven't gotten through all the back posts yet, but I'd like to make a suggestion.  I see all sorts of posts about Russian Orthodox Churches.  But on the corner of 55th and Lexington there's a Synagogue that is the oldest and most famous existing in NYC.  Viewed from the Northeast corner the domes match the shapes of the ones in image 12. hxxp://www.nyc-architecture.com/UES/UES004.htm The 4th image down has a pretty good shot of this. Just a thought...

This is good!! And it makes perfect sense, too since BP was Jewish.  I think we all assumed that since the drawing showed domes that they must be Russian Orthodox. No one to my knowledge so far suggested a Moorish revival synagogue! Good find! Have you been successful in matching other images in the picture to anything in that particular area?

I have a whole different outlook on these domes now.  I think when turned upside down, it becomes a map.  I used google maps and looked at Sandy Hook NJ and Breezy Point NY.  They fit nicely with what seems to be land masses jutting out into the ocean and JJP may be simply be confirming the Russian theme.  Between these two land masses is the gateway to NY and the Narrows Inlet.  Again, when turned upside down, Lady Libert's face becomes a sailboat.  I havent pieced this together yet but I like where it is leading me. When I was on one of my trains the other day, the car I was in was dedicated to the town of Keansburg NJ.  Keansburg has one of the oldest amusement parks to date, just like Coney Island NY, by Breezy Point, while Keansburg is near Sandy Hook.  The inscription in the train said "Keansburg has a wonderfull panoramic view of the NYC skyline" which I know to be true.  You could see the top of Lady Liberty and the WTC tower from there.  I'm going there to look around next wkend.

Nice find on the Central Synagogue!  I like it a lot!

while the central synagogue has domes, they dont match at all the domes in the image from any angle. and we have seen from chicago and Clevleand and Milwaukee that the architectural details in the images match exactly.

Too much emphasis on the domes i think.  Look at it upside down.  just sayin'...Why would the middle dome have ears and eyes?  to throw you off, that's why.  Without the dome shapes, we wouldn't have the penninsulas.  It's the gateway to NY IMHO.

Assuming the Wiki reflects current thinking on this image, here are some ideas based on New York / V6. I think the book includes references to Classical mythology, and this pic put me in mind of Venus/Aphrodite , "born of the sea foam" (aphros). The line "Or May 1913" made me think "Mayor 1913". This led to William Gaynor , Mayor of New York City, who died that year. His memorial at Cadman Plaza was sculpted by Weinman , who also did the Civic Fame statue on the Manhattan Municipal Building . "Constructed from Weinman's plaster model of sheets of copper with a hollow core, she is similar in this respect to the nearby Statue of Liberty" The model for this statue was Audrey Munson , called "Miss Manhattan" and "American Venus", the model for several statues in NYC. I had a look to see if any of these resembled image 12. Here's one on the Manhattan Bridge (reversed): * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * A different line of Aphrodite research led me to the Church of Aphrodite founded by Gleb Botkin on Long Island . He has a Russian connection, being an adherent of Anna Anderson . She claimed to be Grand Duchess Anastasia , the daughter of Nicholas II , Russia's last sovereign. (Has connections with the Russian Orthodox Church.)

looking at image 12 her left hand looks so much like the hand of adam in the picture of god giving him life....you know the one where god and adams fingers are touching...just saying

boogieman, maybe the domes do cause a map, i've tried to do that with the outline of the bird and claws,  but i still think the colors play a part for the subway system. this video explains the system, but it's still greek (or roman ) to me.  but with the gray, and dark gray and purple lines, and the domes are blue and the background is in dark gray hxxp://www.youtube.com/user/mtainfo#p/u/1/yZ83UhBJFP0 hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... way-4D.svg i always just had someone telling where to go and where to get off  (lol)  when i was on a subway, no experience riding one by myself or reading the maps wells, i'm not so sure if it's a religious or just roman classical look in the image, i do like the image on the booth theatre that mikmaq  found, but thinking it is more for architectural design, maybe...... hope everyone has a good turkey week!

wells, i've been thinking and maybe the image is pertaining to (robert ) moses parting the sea..............since he did so much for the parks in new york and the subways  ;D hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses

Thank you Slappy.  I am reading it all....just waiting for something to click.

i know boogieman.  i'm trying and trying not to just write everything i think i do want to mention this.....and i don't know what it means.........if this is the russian picture, the only 2 true russian fair folks are 1. the devil dogs (marines, sailors, john paul jones, leif ericson drive? ) and 2. the tax burden p. 214 which talks about the "gnomes of zurich", which is a bad name for bankers or swiss bankers, illegal stuff  (wall street?  or hamilton (money)....or is the important part the "gnome", which would make me think of a tunnel, like a troll  and having to pay tolls anyway the picture on p. 215 , and this is what is confusing, has that same symbol that is on image 9...the "76" or musical note or whatever it is.  but then it has the belt on it , like the "beltway" , and shore road (summer) like around john paul jones park.  the picture also has an X on the left side of his mouth (our right), and all that money could the money bag be this: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/1993680335/

another idea.....since the "time" is on a square (in the image).........Times square and the new york times  was called "the grey lady"

if the colors aren't for the subway, maybe it is for tiffany's, not sure if for the store on manhattan, or where he lived on long island. i liked this stained glass "charity"  to look like our image. i know this one is in new jersey, but there is a st. john's right by the john paul jones park.  and marine avenue and the toll road. hxxp://www.ettc.net/njarts/details.cfm?ID=1156 2nd picture

if the colors aren't for the subway, maybe it is for tiffany's, not sure if for the store on manhattan, or where he lived on long island. i liked this stained glass "charity"  to look like our image. i know this one is in new jersey, but there is a st. john's right by the john paul jones park .  and marine avenue and the toll road. hxxp://www.ettc.net/njarts/details.cfm?ID=1156 2nd picture

since this is the russian image, i kept wondering what john paul jones park had to do with russia.....but world war 1 was with russia (dover patrol monument) the flag pole was put in in 1980-at the base it says "“in honor of John Paul Jones, the father of the Navy.” father= simple roots, navy=  "v" and "him of Hard word in 3 vols." ---------led zeppelin, hard rock, vol. iii, the immigrant song, john paul jones ..........but a zeppelin is german? but the lady is floating in the air, like a zeppelin anyway, what made me wonder about this is i saw on tv show that russian "v" is a B.......probably not important, but you know me, i jumped, lol is the flagpole anywhere close to 22 feet from the dover patrol monument boogieman? (from the 11 on the clock, twice as many)

since this is the russian image, i kept wondering what john paul jones park had to do with russia.....but world war 1 was with russia (dover patrol monument) the flag pole was put in in 1980-at the base it says "“in honor of John Paul Jones, the father of the Navy.” father= simple roots, navy=  "v" and "him of Hard word in 3 vols." ---------led zeppelin, hard rock, vol. iii, the immigrant song, john paul jones ..........but a zeppelin is german? but the lady is floating in the air, like a zeppelin anyway, what made me wonder about this is i saw on tv show that russian "v" is a B.......probably not important, but you know me, i jumped, lol is the flagpole anywhere close to 22 feet from the dover patrol monument boogieman? (from the 11 on the clock, twice as many)

could it be portraying "atlas" with the "world" on his shoulders? and what does everyone think with the buffalo on the right side of the wave in the image............................

clocks: hxxp://www.forgotten-ny.com/SLICES/clocks2/clocks.html hmm, tiffanys clock is on atlas's shoulders, stained glass....and i just mentioned (somewhere here) what if it is showing atlas, the world on it s shoulder hxxp://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/ ... ready.html

i like the ny tribune clock, scroll down to 7th picture, but it's been gone since 1955, and the world building to build the brooklyn bridge hxxp://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/GON021.htm hxxp://www.emporis.com/application/?nav ... &id=102515 this is near "printing house square" .....and "pace" university

look at these colors for this subway! hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/249 ... otostream/ how close is this to the image......... hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/ritzphotos ... otostream/

i know we thought of times square long time ago because of the clock in the square in the image. but think of these references..............in summer............ .time of year take twice as many steps as the hour.......................... twice = 2 times. ................... .hour (time) will be doing more research tomorrow at times square..oh here's a pic of the ball for new years..............another " time" reference hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Times_Square_ball.jpg

look at this clock at herald square, with minerva hxxp://www.whichyetsurvive.com/?p=4 hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HSquare.JPG

Slappy, I know that you see a buffalo in this part of image 12. Maybe it is a row of trees...at the edge of a wooded area. They would certainly be recognizable if they were growing with that curve in their trunks! AP

That does look a bit forest-like... One thing that bothers me about these puzzles is the final detail. Even if you could identify a particular tree or statue, it wouldn't be reasonable to expect someone to excavate a trench round it. Or would it...? What could be the key that tells you precisely where to dig...?

it does look like a forest like that, but, seeing it so big, looking  sideways......maybe it's showing a tunnel, under the water....or ..in the water.

I see a B D.  Brooklyn dodgers?  We do have the Brooklyn-Battery tunnel tunnel slappy.

lol, boogie, i'm getting to ya! i forgot a "subway"!  how could i forget that! but guys, honestly, doesn't this picture seem to say "God Bless America" Irving Berlin wrote that, and it would stand for all Immigrants, the whole scheme of the whole book. and he came through Ellis Island and he's from Russia. ...........or maybe Woody Guthrie, who wrote, This land is My land. herald square and greeley square (really two triangles)  cohan wrote about Herald square, and they make a bow tie, which also makes a V, and the isle of B could be Broadway and remember the New York Times was called the "gray lady"

just wanted to say this, and not sure where it should go, but columbus circle is the distance  all points are measured from in new york city....and i remember the spirit of '76 ( i know, i know, just thinking) mentions "maximum distance from monuments erected to her fame".. i had been thinking canada, or the border, but....we know he saw the maine monument, because it's in the book for "the pill grim"  i think hxxp://joemygod.blogspot.com/2007/07/mo ... ument.html hey, it's driving me crazy, you don't wanna know all the thoughts i have, i even contemplated one of the 7 dwarves as "rhapsodic"man......you know, the one called "happy"........

Belt Parkway running under the pedestrian bridge... Nearby Fort Hamilton High School... Image 11 clock and flower link... The flagpole is just to the right of the bridge. I think the five blobs either side are benches with views towards Bedloe's. I'm interested in the adjacent green strip, digging by a particular bench; eg number 5 (V) clockwise or some such. (Here was the other visual confirmer from the Verse 10 thread P36 ...) The verse fits. What more do you want? Go dig!

The artist, JJP, said that BP sent him photographs and he would paint the images according to those pics.  He has never been to the treasure sites.  Think BP sent a an overhead picture of this area in 1980?

boogieman wrote:: The artist, JJP, said that BP sent him photographs and he would paint the images according to those pics.  He has never been to the treasure sites.  Think BP sent a an overhead picture of this area in 1980? Hmm, interesting... Must be more than literally photographs though surely, unless we discount stuff like Sumter and Roanoke. Maps? Drawings?

Very good point WR.  But it would have had to have been something attainable from a library.  No google maps then.  Or maybe pics taken from a whirring sound, a helicopter.  But then we would need a helicopter too.  hmmm.  tell me why we are doing this again?

I figured it was possible to imagine what stuff looked like from above, but maybe that was a bridge too far.

i just had an idea...what if that rectangle is outlined red, and is the shape of our park ?  like we see the park map in FOY image.  i was looking and wondering, why is that extra line down under the circular oval shape and thought of that......which would make it maybe central park , and that line under could maybe be the road that goes thru columbus circle....

i just had an idea...what if that rectangle is outlined red, and is the shape of our park?  like we see the park map in FOY image.  i was looking and wondering, why is that extra line down under the circular oval shape and thought of that......which would make it maybe central park, and that line under could maybe be the road that goes thru columbus circle....

and some guy owned that land (columbus circle.. central park ).......guess what his name was... john somerin dyck   ......in summer.......summer in  ;D here's more for my theory of the subway or railways..........the door motors make a "whirring" sound hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R160_%28Ne ... way_car%29 "The old cars made an odd whirring noise as the electric motor powered the car. I also remember the putt-putt-putt sound made by the car's air compressor for the air brakes. The very ol" hxxp://johnsantic.com/nyc_dorm/

and some guy owned that land (columbus circle..central park).......guess what his name was... john somerin dyck   ......in summer.......summer in  ;D here's more for my theory of the subway or railways..........the door motors make a "whirring" sound hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R160_%28Ne ... way_car%29 "The old cars made an odd whirring noise as the electric motor powered the car. I also remember the putt-putt-putt sound made by the car's air compressor for the air brakes. The very ol" hxxp://johnsantic.com/nyc_dorm/

hxxp://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC ... nstat.html ben franklin statue....printer (hard word) and wrote 3 hymn books his arms are out like in the image.. in 1 Pace plaza...........verse 5? Paces u think the flower is little in the image?  "little flower" for mayor laguardia

or maybe it's just saying "heaven"..............stairway to heaven.........led zeppelin  .........john paul jones 3rd volume...............the immigrant song hxxp://www.sidewalklyrics.com/?attachment_id=6787 or a church............ or "lady of the lake"  by sir walter scott

When I saw this bandshell in East River Park , it looked like the top of the arch in image 12. (I know that it also resembles the arch of the Verrazano Bridge.)

When I saw this bandshell in East River Park, it looked like the top of the arch in image 12. (I know that it also resembles the arch of the Verrazano Bridge.)

The Chrysler again...? ...Chry/Chrysanthemum/Chrysler/Cars... I was trying to figure out what else this might be: 1) Wide, curving steps...? 2) A gap, with a view over water to an island...?

WhiteRabbit, I like the Chrysler Building comparison. I had been seeing a Madonna/Grotto in that same area. Not quite seeing your  "gap with a view..." Can you explain or show a more visual reference? AP

...steps to the left, something like a mushroom-shape or cliff-edge to the right...? The arrowhead is in a "gap" between these foreground elements. (Just a random idea.)

Following the Prospect Park idea from my previous posts... (most of which are in the v10 section) with a gray background and a dark rectangle... could that be an unadorned entrance to the Brooklyn Public Library?

Following the Prospect Park idea from my previous posts... (most of which are in the v10 section) with a gray background and a dark rectangle... could that be an unadorned entrance to the Brooklyn Public Library?

oh look there it is, in that hole,  next to that orange plastic fence on the right...

...just checked to see where "chry" comes from in chrysanthemum - apparently Greek chrysos, golden, or yellow. The Chrysler building is an art deco icon. Don't know much about art deco, but I'm wondering if that's the overall style for the top panel, with its red-bordered grey panel, and "colour-blind" panels - art deco stained glass, maybe. (Noticed another colour-blind person linked to the book...Twain...though I haven't seen him connected with this casque.)

my problem is (well, one of 'em), the russian orthodox church, could be any russian orthodox church, and the tower building, could be any tower building i remember someone said "BP" said there was not one in Central Park , which always kept me from looking there, but with this church being right down the road from central park : hxxp://sites.google.com/site/mygothamph ... 901---1902 and shakespeare there with "three" on the pedestal and "23" (or more) hxxp://centralpark-nyc.blogspot.com/200 ... tatue.html and then fox got a reply from BP when he said the image spoke of NY and asked if after the attack on the trade center would it be gone forever and BP replied, " Not so." so,.........could that be "not so"  about NY or "not so" about WTC? oh and did some research on the I beam architecture..........developed by henry "grey', bethlehem steel, and i believe they did the george washington bridge and almost all the skyscrapers in ny

Who was it that communicated with Byron Preiss about Central Park ? Do we have an email that specifically says there is no casque in Central Park ..or are we going on only an assumption? AP

Unknown: as I posted in another thread, here is an email from BP stating there is not a treasure in Central Park ------------------------------------------------- From: To: Subject: Re: Sorry to bother you. Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:08 PM there is no treasure in central park Unknown: BP reponded three diffrent times about NY locations.  Nothing in Central Park , the Statue of Liberty (or Liberty Island), and this one on point, Ground Zero.  I assume that his ***not so*** came after the other two.  Why wouldn't he just say ***get out of NY***?  He gave up Canada, Houston, and St Louis for us.  I think one has to believe here, with the history of his contacts, that his ambiguity surrounding NYC is about not handing anyone the shovel to dig.  Afterall, his office was located on 25th Street, Midtown Manhattan, and born and raised a Brooklynite.....Image12 has the Statue of Liberty, Two WTC, and the Verrazano Bridge.  You can tinker with the verses, but the image belongs to NY. Posted by Fox: Posted by boogieman:

Thanks WhiteRabbit. My searching did not find those threads. New York City...but not Central Park ...

This Wexford County Irish flag looks like the two blocks of color in image 12. Just wondering why these colors in these shapes were used in this image. hxxp://www.flagsoftheworldshop.co.uk/in ... cts_id=399

... John Barry ...? hxxp://www.wexfordassociation-newyork.org/ hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_Barry_Park hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Navy_Yard

i like that whiterabbit!! and that's near my "buffalo", ny a lot about nicola tesla up there and he was austrian.....

WhiteRabbit, That is a very interesting find! Wonder if they fly the Wexford flag at Commodore Barry Park ? AP

it's funny, i mentioned grover cleveland b4 because he was the 22nd and 24th president, and he was sheriff and mayor of buffalo, then later the governor of ny: hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQQ ... Buffalo_NY and they have those replicas of the statue of liberty ontop of the liberty national bank building: hxxp://www.buffalonews.com/city/article199136.ece and olmsted parks: hxxp://www.andrle.com/markers/mark093.htm lol, i told u guys i wasn't good at maps......i thougth it was up there by my niagara falls (wexford county).....but oh well, why would we have an irish flag with a russian picture anyway?  oh, i know, just 'cause he could

could the shape of walt whitman park and cadman plaza park be the shape of the long loop in the belt..... walt whitman's newpaper was the "aurora"  goddess of the dawn, (the woman in the image) and he wrote a primer........about words, the spirit of words..........."wording the future" and the brooklyn war memorial was dedicated on november 12.......and it was more than 22  feet lhigh...24 i think with the heroic figures and it mentions "universal peace" i'm not sure how many steps from the monument to walt whitman park hey at least i'm looking in brooklyn now

just thought this was interesting (man and beast, mozart and beethoven comments from solved ones) the hamilton fountain was created for "man and beast": hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/rivers ... ghts/12331

Slappy, I really think that you are going to be the one!!  One of these posts of yours is going to crack this thing. The natives still speak....maybe some of Hamilton's relatives that lived here in NY, in 1981?

oh i wish boogieman!

Trying to find the tree in the robe-shoulder-folds... Looking around JPJ Park , I found this tree across the street from "Jackson Ct." (Stonewall Jackson..."him of Hard word") So we can see signs for Hamilton (Ft. Hamilton Parkway to the right) and (Stonewall) Jackson within feet of each other. The tree is now about 30 years older and larger...but has the same shape.  (I had to flip the image because I could not find a photo of the tree from the park -side. Taking 22 steps in the East direction from the middle of the branch of a "v"...which "v"??  Maybe a "v" formed by the obelisk pavement or foundation. This possible location does consider the Verrazano Bridge as the "grey giant", and looks at the yard arm mast as the "arm over the slender path". (The yardarm was added to the park in 1980.  BP would have heard about it.) hxxp://www.brooklynrail.org/2003/04/str ... er-preview

Hi Emily ! Animal Painter, did you see in that article that when she talked about Marine Park, she did this: img12!! that was a great article for us! we've mentioned marine park b4 and the street V: here's what she said: ."Then he tells me that George Washington had a mill just over there, and sure enough I can see dark pilings protruding from the iced-over Gerritsen Creek near where Avenue V meets Burnett Street. He says Washington burned down the mill in advance of the invading British..."

doing searches on  marine park.... gerritsen creek named after wolphert gerretse, whose descendents are franklin and teddy roosevelt, and  floyd bennet flew with Bird who flew over the pole, and Amelia Earhart (AIR hart) flew from floyd Bennet field and Howard Hughs one thing, one of Richard E Birds planes or ships was called " The City of New York ", and with our bird ( r. Bird )(in the image).......... always wondered what the evil neckromancers (transylvania, romanian, Hungarian?) were for and there is a Gravesend Neck Road right between avenue U and V at the salt marsh entrance Charles Lindbergh made his famous flight from long island to paris, but not sure yet if it was here at bennett field, but keep finding articles calling him " the lone Eagle" and he flew "The Spirit of St. Louis" i can't seem to find where olmsted had anything to do with marine park (ughhhhh, that big x at the airport reminds me so much of image 9!)

herman melville wrote moby dick or the whale in 3 volumes: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-Dick hxxp://www.melville.org/others.htm he lived down by battery park: hxxp://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=18320 "A man thinks by mouthing hard words he understands hard things" well, i have too, he's quoted on at least two of the verses and he lived right there in ny our bird's head, lol, j/k.......i think hxxp://ladderonwheels.blogspot.com/2009 ... whale.html

the lone eagle....it looks more like an eagles head and a seagulls body

The next possible location is Shore Rd. Park. Stone wall Jackson (him of Hard word?) lived in Bay Ridge (this area), but I don't know if his house is designated with a sign. Ft. Hamilton High School is nearby. The Veterans' Pier is an arm which extends over the slender path (Narrows). We would have to find a tree for a visual clue.

The pier is at the west end of Bay Ridge Ave. (Whirring sound - fishing reels...?) Approx 22 blocks east takes you to the other end, just north of Seth Low Playground on a site once called Indian Pond. Seth became mayor in 1881. As president of Columbia University, he established the Low Library in memory of his father Ariel Abbot Low. hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B100/highlights/12584

hxxp://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?95571 the columns have the color of the clock hxxp://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?59787

nice view from the air accross the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge hxxp://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/145464.jpg hxxp://www.panoramio.com/photo/145464

Here is a possible tree in Shore Rd Park, matching the shape of the robe-folds tree of image 12. If you take about 22 steps in the East direction, from the middle of this branch of the v, it would lead you to this tree.  Only an up-close look would tell if it resembles the image perfectly. Two parks and two trees to check out... both in Brooklyn (rhapsodic man's soil)... both are South of Bedloe's  (Liberty) Island.. . both near an arm over a slender path... both in the shadow of the grey giant...

hxxp://www.nycsubway.org/cars/nytm.html a transit museum right below cadman plaza  and walt whitman

In Brooklyn (rhapsodic man's soil)...South of the Isle of B (Bedloe's) Liberty Island... Being right next to "Jackson" Ct. ( Stone wall... Hard word) and "Ft. Hamilton" Parkway (indies native sign)... being in the shadow of Verrazano Bridge (grey giant)...cars certainly abound...(with the double-decker bridge)... where a "yard arm " was installed in 1980...and there are several v-shaped sidewalks...where helicopter tours whirr by in summer... this area of JPJ Park  is getting more interesting... The tree in JPJ Park near Jackson Ct. has the same "bulge" under the crotch of the tree tapering to a slimmer trunk, as seen in the image 12  tree shape. In the winter months, the shape of the tree is more visible without leaves... ...if anyone can check it out from the park side.

Nicely done AP.  Do you know how many times I parked my car just in front of Jackson Ct, and I never even noticed it?  dang.  If that is the tree, than it, and the bridge are the only visual confirmers on site.

Here are some videos to hold you over. hxxp://www.google.com/search?q=john+pau ... a=N&tab=iv

animal painter wrote:: this area of JPJ Park  is getting more interesting... JPJ/JJP...? Couldn't see a sig on this pic though. Curious how he seemed to initial some and not others.

hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/prospe ... ghts/11746 maybe it is this tree AP, it was dedicated in 19 22 um, i mean, it would have been a "symbolic" tree, since it was cut down  :) it has an oval shape in front of it like in the image: hxxp://jp.zooomr.com/z/photos/zoom/4619721/size-32/ 2 of these plaques mention "north" hxxp://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigm ... /index.htm

slappybuns wrote:: maybe it is this tree AP, it was dedicated in 19 22 ...in November. Re: this area, this book lists several of the Gershwins' addresses including "1310 8th Avenue, near Prospect Park" (and Webster Place). The nearby Brooklyn Museum has this painting ...I guess you could call it rhapsodic man's oil... Prospect Park was designed by Olmsted and Vaux after they finished Central Park.

Looking at the colored dots in image 12. I thought at first they might be colored lights on a famous NY fountain.  Being unable to find such a fountain, I thought they might represent fireworks.  It appears that Macy's has presented the nations largest fireworks display on July 4th... (on or near Liberty Island over the East River) since 1976...first for the Bicentennial... and before that, a fireworks display over the Hudson River since 1958. This could be another New York City visual clue....easily viewed from Brooklyn. "Macy’s 4th of July Fireworks in NYC is the largest display of pyrotechnic creativity and firepower in the nation." hxxp://www.nyctourist.com/macys_fireworks.htm "The Macy's July 4th fireworks display originally made its debut on the Hudson River in 1958 before becoming an East River tradition in 1976." hxxp://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... google.com

around mccarren park you have a russian orthodox church and another church with  a clock tower (607 humboldt stree). hxxp://nycslav.blogspot.com/2008/09/wal ... point.html if it's between these 2 churches, it seems it would be around mccarren park

those dots drive me crazy AP. there is a berry street up by mccarren park, and this eye and ear hospital on greene avenue,  then u wonder if it's tiffany glass or my subway theory hxxp://fadingad.wordpress.com/2009/03/0 ... -brooklyn/ and doesn't it bug you that the zip code for brooklyn area is 11221, or 11222, just seems mean. and what if isn't a real clock in the last picture, just a symbolic one like the big "WATCHTOWER" sign in brooklyn hxxp://theweblicist.com/wordpress/2007/ ... rcle-line/ hxxp://www.shawnhoke.com/tag/brooklyn-bridge/ and what if the image is just saying "columbia university" hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/1022884903/ that is kind of interesting, read under that photo, French who designed Minerva, was noted for hiding "owls" in his art work, and there is one hidden in the folds of her cloak.............just like stuff is hidden in the folds of our image i have been wondering if a "library" could be around all the hidden casques (like copley and cleveland) or maybe it's the Church of Ascension on fith avenue

slappybuns wrote:: wonder if it's tiffany glass I was looking for the stuff in the Chrysler Museum earlier - they seem to have quite a lot of it. hxxp://www.chrysler.org/glass.asp And similar glassware like this Lafarge firescreen . Lafarge loved this kind of thing. Here's a detail from one of his masterpieces at Trinity Church in Copley Square, Boston. The dragon background in image 1 also has a similar design. (Born in New York, buried in Brooklyn.)

!  i've been looking at the same thing today whiterabbit! but mostly at church windows la farge did the window at columbia university too, i think...getting them all mixed up

look at this chapel at greenwood cemetery, brooklyn: hxxp://www.teachersparadise.com/ency/en ... etery.html hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/peterlaw/1 ... otostream/ clock at the cemetery: hxxp://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigm ... /index.htm hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/peterlaw/1 ... otostream/ hxxp://www.museumplanet.com/tour.php/nyc/gw/45

Hey Slappy, check this out. Start with Brooklyn, add an eagle, what do you get...? The Brooklyn Eagle , a newspaper which ran for over 100 years - Walt Whitman was editor at one time. Here's the good bit. You know Owl's Head Park was built on land owned by our "rhapsodic man" Mr Bliss...? Well, guess who he bought it from...? Henry Murphy , founder of the Brooklyn Eagle. Senator Street is named after him. hxxp://www.forgotten-ny.com/SLICES/shor ... .road.html * * * * * * * * * * Eliphalet W Bliss (EWB) is immortalised on these railings. I thought that if this was the right location, there might be a "EWB/WEB" clue. Now, there are several possible Venus links. (Mythology of Venus born of the sea-foam a-la Botticelli, possible Audrey Munson match on the Manhattan Bridge, and Liberty - copper is the astrological metal of Venus.) So I thought, maybe, web...flytrap... venus flytrap ...? slende r pat h The fence design reminds me of the JJP sketch at the beginning of the book. Simple roots...fence-posts...?

speaking of brooklyn, maybe this will help us hxxp://brooklynhistory.pastperfect-onli ... est=random and did we check this church and surroundings Russian Orthodox Cathedral of the Transfiguration of Our Lord 228 Driggs Avenue brooklyn hxxp://www.roct.org/

where is that bear?  i forget it's locations........but of course seeing it again i thought of bayer...lol adele bayer.......the navy yard, orphans and widows, landscape gardening, 1st horticultural garden saint adele---------mentions st. gregory of utrecht hxxp://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=467 hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Utrecht,_Brooklyn hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=T2cQAA ... yn&f=false i like gates, WhiteRabbit, in the book it mentions nw gates

how could he not use asimov or sagan for brooklyn.... asimov pronounced his name with 3 small words............as him of............tried and tried to get that to fit the line "of him of hard word" he is russian and he had a 3 volumes of short stories then i thought any science could be a hard word or math still looking for stuff for "harp" on it.......utter, speak, or harpoon.....harper's magazine,  william tell , leif ericson, moby dick (melville) william tell would fit new york..........you know, splitting the apple, lol hard words.......religion, truth, beliefs, faith(something you can't see)..... volumes--masses. .....statue of liberty (huddled masses ) church mass mass migrations newton's law of motion the amount of space? 3 spaces......asimov

boogieman wrote:: The artist, JJP, said that BP sent him photographs and he would paint the images according to those pics.  He has never been to the treasure sites. Unknown: "Byron's kind of like a little mad genius," Palencar says. "He travelled the country picking places. Then he'd fed-ex me these dossiers with obscure photos and notes." Palencar came up with the idea of burying a casque in the Greek Cultural Garden. "We were kind of brainstorming places," Palencar remembers. "I told Byron, I think I have a good spot." He took Preiss out to the garden and then stood lookout while Preiss buried the casque. Incidentally, I just noticed that JJP actually thought of the Greek Cultural Garden, and they went there together. hxxp://www.angelfire.com/dragon/egbert/secret.html

Nice !  I forgot about that Cleveland thing. But I still suspect that BP sent him images for our #12 and he painted from those.

(Yeah, sounds like BP did most of the legwork. Wonder what ol' JJP is doing these days...)

WhiteRabbit, Thanks for the refresher on how J Palencar incorporated visual clues! AP

"Consider a group of those frugal Lowland Dwarves, the Alven, hovering, invisible, and observing in economic agony while their old friends the Canarsie tribe traded Manhattan Island for a handful of trinkets! (Could it be that they imagined Peter Minuit's glass baubles possessed the same worth as the Alven's Treasure-Stone?)" I was recently puzzling over why this paragraph mixed the Dutch up with Manhattan. Only just realised that Peter Minuit had Dutch connections. "Canarsie Indians, who were part of the Mohegan Nation and spoke Algonquin, lived in and around present-day Owl's Head Park . They fished in the Hudson River and New York Harbor, collected oysters on the shore, and farmed the fertile outwash plain. The first Europeans to settle this land were of Dutch descent." I found some background on the estate in the Brooklyn Eagle's online archive. Search for "owls head park ", click "A Mansion on a Bluff" and then "View...PDF". It's mixed up with the creation of the Brooklyn Bridge among other things. hxxp://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/ ... kin=BEagle Simple roots...plain...Plane tree...? They have a characteristic peeling white bark. (Waves...?) hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platanus_occidentalis * * * * * (Couple of pics of Owls Head Park ) One of the world's largest owls is America's Great Grey Owl. Grey giant...? hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Grey_Owl

"Consider a group of those frugal Lowland Dwarves, the Alven, hovering, invisible, and observing in economic agony while their old friends the Canarsie tribe traded Manhattan Island for a handful of trinkets! (Could it be that they imagined Peter Minuit's glass baubles possessed the same worth as the Alven's Treasure-Stone?)" I was recently puzzling over why this paragraph mixed the Dutch up with Manhattan. Only just realised that Peter Minuit had Dutch connections. "Canarsie Indians, who were part of the Mohegan Nation and spoke Algonquin, lived in and around present-day Owl's Head Park. They fished in the Hudson River and New York Harbor, collected oysters on the shore, and farmed the fertile outwash plain. The first Europeans to settle this land were of Dutch descent." I found some background on the estate in the Brooklyn Eagle's online archive. Search for "owls head park", click "A Mansion on a Bluff" and then "View...PDF". It's mixed up with the creation of the Brooklyn Bridge among other things. hxxp://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/ ... kin=BEagle Simple roots...plain...Plane tree...? They have a characteristic peeling white bark. (Waves...?) hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platanus_occidentalis * * * * * (Couple of pics of Owls Head Park) One of the world's largest owls is America's Great Grey Owl. Grey giant...? hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Grey_Owl

lol, and i just realized what the pebbles are, in the image!  it's the glass baubles peter minuit sold manhattan for!! thanks for writing that Whiterabbit! wouldn't that make sense! peter minuit plaza or the netherlands monument at the entrance to battery park ! hxxp://www.insidetheapple.net/006-Nethe ... agpole.jpg There are two memorials to the famous $24 bargain: Peter Minuit Plaza, just outside the entrance to the South Ferry terminal of the Staten Island Ferry, and the Netherlands Memorial Flagpole, a gift from the people of Holland in 1926 to mark the 300th anniversary of the transaction. The flagpole is just inside the entrance to Battery Park and shows Peter Minuit frozen in the midst of handing over the fabled “beads and trinkets.” and there is the ferry terminal too 22 hxxp://www.hmdb.org/Marker.asp?Marker=13930 rhapsodic man's soil------------- peter minuet :)  (the dance, music)

lol, and i just realized what the pebbles are, in the image!  it's the glass baubles peter minuit sold manhattan for!! thanks for writing that Whiterabbit! wouldn't that make sense! peter minuit plaza or the netherlands monument at the entrance to battery park! hxxp://www.insidetheapple.net/006-Nethe ... agpole.jpg There are two memorials to the famous $24 bargain: Peter Minuit Plaza, just outside the entrance to the South Ferry terminal of the Staten Island Ferry, and the Netherlands Memorial Flagpole, a gift from the people of Holland in 1926 to mark the 300th anniversary of the transaction. The flagpole is just inside the entrance to Battery Park and shows Peter Minuit frozen in the midst of handing over the fabled “beads and trinkets.” and there is the ferry terminal too 22 hxxp://www.hmdb.org/Marker.asp?Marker=13930 rhapsodic man's soil------------- peter minuet :)  (the dance, music)

I’ve picked a spot in Owl’s Head Park where I’d look for the simple roots. The shape of Owl’s Head Park is given by this corner in Image 12. Note that there’s a distinctive highlighted blob with a circle. The bird looks like he’s about to eat it. On the map, this position is at the top of Narrows Ave, 22 blocks from Shore Road Park. Here's the view looking towards the park from this point... Note the manhole… …and the “One Way” sign… Here’s a “V” at that point… Would be interested to see if there was a plane tree here.

I’ve picked a spot in Owl’s Head Park where I’d look for the simple roots. The shape of Owl’s Head Park is given by this corner in Image 12. Note that there’s a distinctive highlighted blob with a circle. The bird looks like he’s about to eat it. On the map, this position is at the top of Narrows Ave, 22 blocks from Shore Road Park . Here's the view looking towards the park from this point... Note the manhole… …and the “One Way” sign… Here’s a “V” at that point… Would be interested to see if there was a plane tree here.

glass baubles hxxp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... 95&bih=545 forest and boogie! are you guys listening?? by the way guys, i did find a buffalo on the manhattan bridge hxxp://www.museumplanet.com/tour.php/nyc/mb/5 hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/emilio_guerra/5384318786/

slappybuns wrote:: by the way guys, i did find a buffalo on the manhattan bridge Hah. I like the Manhattan Bridge as it's got my "American Venus" Audrey Munson. Plus it's next to the Brooklyn Bridge, which is a step closer to owl-land. I haven't seen your water buffalo yet though. I'll have to take another look...

hxxp://citynoise.org/article/9313 here ya go whiterabbit, very first pic, at the top of the arch look at this comic of boss tweed with the moneybag on his face.........:/ hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Tweed

(Cool...I meant I saw the one on the bridge...but I haven't seen the one in the pic...)

it won't let me load any picture but it's on the bottom right of the waves, the dark part not in the flat water but the right side of the waves

This picture shows a beautiful v-shaped sidewalk in Owl Head Park, but I do not know exactly where it is in the park. hxxp://www.panoramio.com/photo/10825598

This picture shows a beautiful v-shaped sidewalk in Owl Head Park , but I do not know exactly where it is in the park . hxxp://www.panoramio.com/photo/10825598

Unknown: forest and boogie! are you guys listening?? Always, slappy. You are a source of infinite amusement.

animal painter wrote:: This picture shows a beautiful v-shaped sidewalk in Owl Head Park, but I do not know exactly where it is in the park. Cheers AP. Here's another image from the same collection. I suppose the "glass bauble" texture might be a representation of the ground surface somewhere. I was curious as to whether there were any plane trees in OHP. I expect there are, as they're apparently common in Brooklyn. The tree on the right is a plane tree. The one on the left from the park pic looks quite similar. Also wondered about this element as an indication of the "roots"; three roots with the tree above... (With a bit of imagination you can see an "O" and an "H" on the trunk.) I've only just cottoned on to the idea of using Youtube to look at locations. For instance, there's an amateur short movie called "Destiny's Child" that was filmed at OHP. hxxp://www.destinyschildmovie.com/

animal painter wrote:: This picture shows a beautiful v-shaped sidewalk in Owl Head Park , but I do not know exactly where it is in the park . Cheers AP. Here's another image from the same collection. I suppose the "glass bauble" texture might be a representation of the ground surface somewhere. I was curious as to whether there were any plane trees in OHP. I expect there are, as they're apparently common in Brooklyn. The tree on the right is a plane tree. The one on the left from the park pic looks quite similar. Also wondered about this element as an indication of the "roots"; three roots with the tree above... (With a bit of imagination you can see an "O" and an "H" on the trunk.) I've only just cottoned on to the idea of using Youtube to look at locations. For instance, there's an amateur short movie called "Destiny's Child" that was filmed at OHP. hxxp://www.destinyschildmovie.com/

how about this for "root", -----------william "root" bliss--------------we can't get a break hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=0V1IAA ... ny&f=false oh which reminds me, brooklyn stands for "broken land" that might be why the arch is broken between the wings also, in the evil neckromancers it mentions life of "bliss" and  " future "bliss", but it also mentions valentinii (valentino park ?(think it's too new) and kitchens (coffey park ) and soldiers and sailors and nosferatu (which leads to transylvania, romania, hungary, maygars (louis kossuth, riverside park )  :)................and it talks about jealousy..........harry thaw and stanford white and evelyn nesbitt? loopholes.............gaps in the wall .............taxes? hamilton custom house...wall street......or a tunnel stanford white designed the prison ship sailors monument in fort greene park (and the visitor center)....but he was killed at madison square garden, and its by washington street law of Moses--the Pentateuch, containing the Mosaic dispensations, or system of rules and ordinances, and forming the first of the three Jewish divisions of the Old Testament. sure would be nice if we could find tchaikovsky somewhere what with "nutcracker" for hard word and domino sugar for the sugar plum fairy

how about this for "root", -----------william "root" bliss--------------we can't get a break hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=0V1IAA ... ny&f=false oh which reminds me, brooklyn stands for "broken land" that might be why the arch is broken between the wings also, in the evil neckromancers it mentions life of "bliss" and  " future "bliss", but it also mentions valentinii (valentino park?(think it's too new) and kitchens (coffey park) and soldiers and sailors and nosferatu (which leads to transylvania, romania, hungary, maygars (louis kossuth, riverside park)  :)................and it talks about jealousy..........harry thaw and stanford white and evelyn nesbitt? loopholes.............gaps in the wall .............taxes? hamilton custom house...wall street......or a tunnel stanford white designed the prison ship sailors monument in fort greene park (and the visitor center)....but he was killed at madison square garden, and its by washington street law of Moses--the Pentateuch, containing the Mosaic dispensations, or system of rules and ordinances, and forming the first of the three Jewish divisions of the Old Testament. sure would be nice if we could find tchaikovsky somewhere what with "nutcracker" for hard word and domino sugar for the sugar plum fairy

we could say the woman is symbolizing manhattan, new york..........and find the arm that extends over the slender path........the manhattan bridge (with my buffalo), and from there go straight to prospect park scratch all that, i'm back to herman melville, look at this quote from him: "A man thinks that by mouthing hard words he understands hard things." and he wrote typee, omoo, and mardi..........all about sailors i swear moby dick is the face of our bird, that bird has teeth hxxp://listsoplenty.com/blog/?p=8402 hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/70323761@N00/2373108796/ hxxp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives ... yn+Wire%29 and he was a native new yorker

we could say the woman is symbolizing manhattan, new york..........and find the arm that extends over the slender path........the manhattan bridge (with my buffalo), and from there go straight to prospect park scratch all that, i'm back to herman melville, look at this quote from him: "A man thinks that by mouthing hard words he understands hard things." and he wrote typee, omoo, and mardi..........all about sailors i swear moby dick is the face of our bird, that bird has teeth hxxp://listsoplenty.com/blog/?p=8402 hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/70323761@N00/2373108796/ hxxp://brooklynheightsblog.com/archives ... yn+Wire%29 and he was a native new yorker

Re: those horse railings in OHP... I noticed that in the horse story, when they go on about "steal horse" (steel horse) it happens on three nights (knights). It's so bizarre, it must mean something. This... ...reminds me of this... Also looks like a "3". And you have "white horse" meaning "wave". hxxp://www.thefreedictionary.com/white+horse OHP also has these, visible in the railing pic:

those diamond shapes remind me of the dark (shadows) of the woman's eyes in the image. just putting this out there.......inwood hill park hxxp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... 29,r:4,s:0

those diamond shapes remind me of the dark (shadows) of the woman's eyes in the image. just putting this out there.......inwood hill park hxxp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... 29,r:4,s:0

slappybuns wrote:: how could he not use asimov or sagan for brooklyn.... asimov pronounced his name with 3 small words............as him of............tried and tried to get that to fit the line "of him of hard word" he is russian and he had a 3 volumes of short stories then i thought any science could be a hard word or math ....... Answered the 3 vols. today in the Verse section (again )

I previously suggested Fort Hamilton High School as a shape in this image. I was just taking another look at it and I still like this, so I thought I'd have another go at trying to convince y'all. View opposite: Aerial view: Here's that same "V" seen from the coast road: Note the road sign (circled above): Maybe by that lamp?

Nice job Rabbit!  I'm still looking for the time to get out there and take pictures and search around.  I hate to keep you guys waiting.  I just have a really full schedule now.  But I really like that whole area.  ALOT!

I also am a huge fan of that area. It feels like a place where one could inconspicuously carry a long-handled spade and find a secluded spot to dig a 3-foot hole... Good luck when you get there, Boogie. AP

boogieman wrote:: I really like that whole area. WhiteRabbit wrote:: (Image11 / Image12 comparison.) Cheers Boogie. I'll try not to quote too much stuff about the Fair Folk, but I can't resist adding a couple of footnotes... The main claim to fame for Fort Hamilton High seems to be that it was built on the site of an athletics organisation called the "Crescent Club". hxxp://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/ ... _the_c.php I see the Russian puzzle as an ice-bound thing. "...from the Far Marches, from the wide snowy Steppes..." "...they cherish silver, for it puts them in mind of moonlight and icicles..." The crescent is a symbol for silver, and the moon. * * * * * Take twice as many east steps as the hour Or more From the middle of one branch Of the v Look down There's a flight of steps in front of the school, and I'm wondering if these might be the 22 (or more) steps. That would mean that we could base the location on "the middle of one branch of the v", instead of 22 (or more) steps away from it, which is a bit vague. This is the last image. At the beginning of the book, there's a dedication to "voices of freedom in the Russian darkness" or some such, and I'm wondering if he's shoe-horned a 'message' or two into the puzzle. Freedom/liberty seems to be one of its preoccupations, and lights also seem to crop up a lot. ("Lit by lamplight" etc.) This is partly why I like the lamp which appears to be around the middle of the "branch of the v" which is closer to the coast road, and the yellow sign. (There's a few of those about though...there are a couple more near the school entrance.) * * * * * A Topaz is the Russian prize The royal sunstone, frozen fire. Peridot of old Italy I noticed that Topaz basically used to mean any yellow gemstone. It gets its name from St John's Island ("Topazos") where they used to mine a yellow stone...although that was actually a form of Peridot, the image 11 gem. "This gem makes the island notable as it is believed to be the first discovered source of peridot, which was called topazios in ancient times, hence the Greek name for the island, Topazios." hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topaz#History hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John's_Island,_Egypt * * * * * (Couple of Gershwin quotes I noticed, probably irrelevant. Re: the "simple roots in rhapsodic man's soil", Bernstein wrote that Gershwin was "deprived of the chance to plunge his roots firmly into the new soil". He was disparagingly described by Aaron Copland as "the best composer of light music that America has yet had".) * * * * * Re: "him of Hard word", I'm thinking school books / Webster's dictionary. * * * * * Look forward to seeing some pics when you get time to make a visit.

had an idea about your "steel" horses at bliss park whiterabbit.  remember the story about the horse being stolen....stolen one night, stole back, then stole again....then he got it in the "middle of the day ( or something like that)......maybe it's at the middle of the 3rd .....( i didn't reread the story, so however many days and night it went on)

(Cheers Slappy...I'm kind of set on Fort Hamilton High for I12 now. Way I see it, the "four strange Indians" are the ones shown at the bottom of the page, one with a bow, and the "steel horse" is the I5 weathervane which represents Grant Park's Native American Bowman. I doubt this concept will prove popular however. And as a useful confirmer, it sucks. )

On sober reflection, I'm starting to think that digging round lampposts sounds dangerous. Metal clock hands... Could the "baubles" be the mesh wire fence...? That would put it closer to the yellow "topaz" sign, and the view of Bedloe's. The simple roots could be fence-posts. Reminds me of Gershwin's Second Rhapsody, the Rhapsody in Rivets .

just below center of the clock there is something there...cant see it clearly....looks like letters...anyone see it

Had this idea about George Pickett

Something to add.  Pickett comes from thinking about fences.  Fairy could be Ferry boat.  This image reminds me whale watching.  I think there is an outline of a blue whale below the surf.  There is a replica Pickett memorial in San Juan near Seattle area.  I have no idea what V to pair with this.  Just brainstorming.

I thought the Cattle Point Light house as a 2 for 1, since the door resembles the left most corner pane and the top looks like one of the 3 spires in the next pane over. The woman looks like she could be Morning Mist, the name of George Pickett's American Indian wife, as she floats over the sea-surf like mist. The Officer's Quarters house in the fenced in area with an arch that is same proportioned as this whole image also has a flag pole.  It's columns remind me of the Roman Numeral's III... The Orca is a stretch, but hey, it kinda works.  Lots of Orca's in the waters around San Juan. The Pickett monument in Richmond, VA looks like one of the spires.  An inlet on San Juan looks like a spire too. The Pickett monument stone in San Juan on the right illustrates a proportionality that seems consistent with the image layers.  The base block is the height of the water, the next portion aligns with the base of the woman's feet, and the top portion tapers like the rounded top of the image. Legend: circle = inlet, diamond = officers quarters, triangle = monument stone, 4-point star = lighthouse

Err...

I haven't done much to propound this theory yet.  There must be a reason why BP would choose George Pickett.  It could be that he drew some ideas from visiting the Smithsonian Museum in 1979 when he saw the work of sculptor Edward Valentine in the form of a bronze bust of George Pickett (verifiable).  Edward Valentine's studio is at 1015 Clark St. in Richmond, VA.  George Picket "sat" there for the Edward Valentine on May 3rd, 1975.  BP then decided to use the semi-circular arch of pane glass above the entrance there for a portion of Image 12.  The four panes below the curved sections have been added-in to act as various location clues that point to George Pickett's post in the State of Washington when he was constructing Fort Bellingham in 1856-1860 just before the attack on Fort Sumpter in 1861 which caused George Pickett to make the hard decision to leave behind a new born son Jimmy, just bereaved of his mother Morning Mist who died of illness.  Morning Mist left behind a red box of Russian design containing two white gloves from the marriage ceremony.  I presume the groom wears one glove and the bride wears the other.  Perhaps the Russian inspired spires in Image 12 might be linked to the box. [ hxxp://www.westranchhighschool.com/band ... Russia.jpg ].  The one white flower in the woman's hand might be linked to the gloves.  The name Morning Mist is appropriate to describe the "phenomenon of water droplets suspended in air." [ hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mist ]. It's an interesting process to consider how BP put together his idea to bury in San Juan knowing that George Pickett was primarily memorialized in Richmond, VA where he is buried.  This is also a way of suggesting that there's less or no likelihood of any of the other Images pointing to a Washington location, but doesn't mean he didn't bury a casque in a nearby state like Idaho or Oregon.  From what I've seen, nobody has really concluded anything likely for the Northwest yet.  It's one whole corner of the country, it seems like a reasonable assumption that one would be found there...perhaps just wishful thinking. I find it too convenient that Byron shares the same name as the famous poet Lord Byron and the verses are basically poems as well.  I suspect BP drew from this connection since San Juan also shares name in one of Lord Byron's great works "Don Juan".  Seems an irresistible opportunity to construct a puzzle based on George Pickett. In Verse 9, the line about a green picket fence has me thinking it would apply well to Image 12 as San Juan because "green" is characteristic of the US Army and would parallel the Officer's Quarters building and "fence" would also serve with respect to defense or protection.  There's an actual picket fence around the Officer's Quarters, not that it's green.  BP might be making use of word play when it comes to colors.  Verse 5's "white stone" has me thinking "wide stone" or "why test one?".  Verse 9 has me thinking about "with wind rose" as wind like a clock or a spiral staircase and rose as in rows or the color red.  The line about bending branches overhead almost makes me think of lightening.  Is there a lightning rod at the Cattle Point light house?  As for hearing the honks, I'm thinking about a military officer or forest ranger stationed at the old Officer's Quarters who gets up each morning to blow a bugle and check on the flag mast. I'm definitely not going to go to San Juan to scout the area for hard confirmation.  It really looks like an on location diligence is needed for these.  Google Earth/Maps or Wikimapia only gets our foot in the door.  The photo of the Pickett monument stone in San Juan looks like it's in a grassy area near trees, but the aerial map looks like it's in a desert plain.  I'm sure the only way to be sure is to go there in person. So, anybody interested in taking a closer look?  It's bound to be a fun ferry boat ride from Seattle. hxxp://www.clippervacations.com/ferry/s ... njuanferry

Not that I'm the expert I usually just roll one And google away the day Looking for information. Finding some, :app) Believing a ton D:) Creating some of my own... So I apologize If in this reply I've offended you, But you must know why. Cause if you read the lines Which describe my time Spent here, you'd know that I'm high. But your shit don't make no sense.

anyone think the rough outline of the white surf portion of the water is similar to the shape of San Juan Island National Historic Park?

animal painter wrote:: Once more I have modified the map. Today I found a better match to the animal in the foamy water in image 12. It is a bear figure by the Delacorte Clock... another Central Park location...not Chinatown. You can watch the animals on the clock move around, at the link posted below. I know someone said that BP denied burying a casque in Central Park, so it is merely a clue to get us in the right area. Erexere, Are you talking about the animal in the foam?

Animal Painter, I've updated the image in my previous post to illustrate a VERY rough similarity when I scale the map to the size of the WHOLE surf segment.  Have a look.

I still don't know what that bear is doing there. It's escaped from Montreal.

The road around this corner of the island has a few characteristics, but isn't a perfect match to the skirt line.  The lighthouse is actually in the same place as the gemstone proportionally speaking. Here I was thinking along the lines of Keats being buried in Rome "Written in water" and thought the San Juan Island National Historic Park shared a boot like shape to Italy.  I circled Rome thinking it might be a clue to the general area in the park.  I'm still trying to see the surf as this shape also, but now I can't help seeing that dancing bear.  GRrrrr. Edit: adding in a final bit about the abalone that was ever popular in this area of San Juan's Puget Sound, I believe the colors and circular shapes are to represent abalone and the rare pearls they make, here in the middle is an actual photo of those pearls.  The seagull looks like it's trying to eat the anomalous pearl with the halo.

boogieman is the weather getting good there?  please check out bliss park, all the times he says "bliss" in the book, just seems to perfect for our "rhapsodic" part and whatever parks are around there hope u have a fun summer!

I'm going to propose a new idea for Image 12. Maybe we are getting a bit hidebound on this board--and maybe Ex is right a little about our refusal to shake up our ideas. Whatever. At any rate, he got me thinking again about New York. I went through (albeit hastily) the posts on this image again--all 43 pages of them. And something popped out at me. The bottom of the woman's gown is shaped like Lower Manhattan. The gemstone in the image is almost exactly where Governor's Island would be, and the other water droplets could be Ellis Island (left) and Brooklyn (the two on the right). I know that Governor's Island was proposed once, but Trohn said that because it was a Coast Guard base at one time that BP would have had "zero access" to it. That isn't true, exactly. There is still (and was then) a large residential area on GI that would have been publicly accessible. HOWEVER, I've been over the place with as fine a toothed comb as my research permits, and I don't really think the casque is there--although a strong argument for that bear in the surf could be made for Bear Road, on Governor's--which would have been in the publicly accessible area. But I think the bear is just an inside joke of BP's and JJPs. a bit of a Red Berring, as it were. (groan).  At any rate, None of the images in the top of I. 12 are on Governor's either. And that's a stronger argument. So where are they? Actually, a lot of them are in Battery Park. The bird--the mosaics--the rectangular figure, and the red/white tiles--all elements found in Battery Park. The mosaics are famous, actually--part of a bunch of mosaics that Heins and LaFarge did all over NYC. The bird is almost the exact same shape and wing-set at the one in the image, and the rectangle is part of a bunch of rectangular stones that line one end of the park. The tiles are part of the subway station. In fact, even the "onion domes" are visible--as those dome-like things on the Ellis island building, just across the bay--visible with the naked eye (or a pair of binoculars.) In other words, not far. And those mosaics--they aren't  (in my opinion) JUST representative of the famous ones--they could also be something else: Castle Clinton, (which has a prominent arched doorway at the front like the arch in the Image) was at one time the NYC Public Aquarium. Those pebbly mosaics look a lot like fish tank gravel to me. NEXT POST PLEASE.

Okay--so how do we make Verse 10 fit? Well, we don't. Here's where you'll have to take a leap of faith. I think this Image should be paired up with Verse 7. At stone wall's door the air smells sweet: It would. Castle Clinton is basically a big stone wall, with flowers and gardens around it. The fresh sea air would be a constant counterpoint to the stuffy city atmosphere. Battery Park has always been a famous place to "take the air" in NYC. Not far away, high posts are three Education and Justice for all to see. The 3 "high posts" would be the three places where monuments speak of education and justice: The Statue of Liberty on Liberty Island, The immigration museum on Ellis Island, and the Coast Guard on Governor's Island. In addition, "justice" could be served by the use of Castle Williams (on GI) as a prison for many many years. Sounds from the sky near ace is high Again, the Coast Guard had their base nearby--and there were many "aces" in the squadrons. There was a small airport there on GI. Running north, but first across Battery Park is north of these things that were already mentioned--and "first across" could mean the ferry, which runs North-South In jewel's direction the jewel's direction would be, then, NORTH. NOT on Governor's Island, but in Battery Park. Is an object of Twain's attention. Oh, yes there is. The Player's Club is NORTH of the park--and Mark Twain FOUNDED IT along with Edwin Booth. Certainly an object of his attention. Now comes the hard part. I found the Giant Pole.  It's here: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/mandaroak/4495692010/ But, I don't know about the Giant Step--but I'm assuming it's somewhere near the pole. I have not been able to find a lot of good pics of Battery Park that show the whole place, especially around the spar-pole. I really think there needs to be someone to walk the place and see in person. Okay---I know this is a little radical, but a lot of it fits together. The image fits, the verse fits. And the location would have been ideal then, and still is. It's not central Park, and it's not Ellis Island--both of which we have been told were NOT locations. It's not as problematic as Verse 10 with it's "hard word" and V and Isle of B It would free up Verse 10 to be used in Canada--I've always liked Niagara Falls as a location for that one.  Or there could be yet another location in New York state--it's not out of the question. Your thoughts?

And here is another idea: There is a man named Scott Jordan who is an artist and a self-styled "urban archeologist" who grew up on Governor's Island. He has dug up most of the place and uses the shards and artifacts he finds to make jewelry or art objects. He also digs up a lot of stuff all over NYC. We could maybe contact him--he has a website--and ask if he (1) ever dug up a plexiglas box at any time, and (2)  if he might be interested in digging around in Battery Park. He gets permission easily because he's well-known and respectful of the site--and has a (smile) "higher purpose" to his digging. What do you think? hxxp://www.newyorkartifactart.com/articles.html

i love the battery park area.  i tried to fit verse 5 with it, lots of it works. lane 222- washington street you'll see an arc of lights-anything weight and roots extended...==castle clinton of granite walls...--castle clinton a wingless bird ascended, born of ancient dreams of flight---, man, immigration, ellis island beneath the only standing member of a forest to the south -----------jesse de forest. ...........walloon settlers monument hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_par ... monId=1647 but then when you look up walloons, the picture looked like image 9........ hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walloons i like image 9 for new york, with the dutch idea  :)...........but my golf idea doesn't go with battery park

also, what if the buffalo i see is really just a bull, then we have the white bears that everyone sees in the white water, so we have the bulls and bears for the financial district A topaz is the [b]Russian prize [/b]: The royal sunstone, [b]frozen [/b] fire. russian prize makes me think of seward................he bought alaska from Russia ------------------ a russian prize frozen ---------sounds like alaska too and the white bears, they called the buying of alaska for johnson, the polar bear garden the right hand from the image looks like seward's hand holding the quill (in madison square park), but you (or i can't) can't really see the left hand. madison square park is straight up from the financial district (i think) hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... 7da89c7986 hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/madiso ... /monuments admiral farragut, with the waves on the monument and general worth is there:  "...glass baubles possessed the same worth..." and broadway............gaze north toward the isle of B frozen fire also makes me think of ice skating.......madison square garden? i'm gonna be gone to NC for over a month!  have fun guys!

I've been calling it a seagull...now I think it's an (s)Eagle. Was just speaking to a friend of mine who told me a cool story about his bike trip around San Juan Island around 1995.  He said there were lots of abolone related things around town and there was a time when he was kicking around a hackysac and a huge Eagle swooped down into the water behind him and pulled into the sky just as quickly.  It was COOL.  He says he'll be happy to go for another ride up there, but it won't be anytime soon.

slappybuns wrote:: i'm gonna be gone to NC for over a month!  have fun guys! We'll try and save one or two for when you get back.

Oh wait, that birds head reminds me of the Seattle Seahawks sweater I had back when I was 9...hey, that was 1981!

erexere wrote:: I was literally at this beach today -- and when we were motoring down Pickett road, I remembered that this was part of your theory. The beach is basically a long stretch of black and light gray rocks, with some black/dark gray sand higher up, with about a 30-foot-deep ribbon of white driftwood stretching the entire length.  There really aren't many more features other than that.  I took a picture or two.  I'll post them later when I get a chance.

Very cool.  My guess is there might be clues closer to the big tree with branches bent upwards (what kind of tree could that be?) that stands about a 100ft northwest of the Officers Quarters building up the road from the Redoubt.  I've been busy around here and haven't focused too closely on the breakdown for this one, but a lot of clues line up.  Probably should disregard my upside down Orca...that was just silly. Think you might be toting a shovel with you in the near future, bigmattyh?

shecrab wrote:: Okay--so how do we make Verse 10 fit? Well, we don't. Here's where you'll have to take a leap of faith. I think this Image should be paired up with Verse 7. At stone wall's door the air smells sweet: It would. Castle Clinton is basically a big stone wall, with flowers and gardens around it. The fresh sea air would be a constant counterpoint to the stuffy city atmosphere. Battery Park has always been a famous place to "take the air" in NYC. Not far away, high posts are three Education and Justice for all to see. The 3 "high posts" would be the three places where monuments speak of education and justice: The Statue of Liberty on Liberty Island, The immigration museum on Ellis Island, and the Coast Guard on Governor's Island. In addition, "justice" could be served by the use of Castle Williams (on GI) as a prison for many many years. Sounds from the sky near ace is high Again, the Coast Guard had their base nearby--and there were many "aces" in the squadrons. There was a small airport there on GI. Running north, but first across Battery Park is north of these things that were already mentioned--and "first across" could mean the ferry, which runs North-South In jewel's direction the jewel's direction would be, then, NORTH. NOT on Governor's Island, but in Battery Park . Is an object of Twain's attention. Oh, yes there is. The Player's Club is NORTH of the park --and Mark Twain FOUNDED IT along with Edwin Booth. Certainly an object of his attention. Now comes the hard part. I found the Giant Pole.  It's here: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/mandaroak/4495692010/ But, I don't know about the Giant Step--but I'm assuming it's somewhere near the pole. I have not been able to find a lot of good pics of Battery Park that show the whole place, especially around the spar-pole. I really think there needs to be someone to walk the place and see in person. Okay---I know this is a little radical, but a lot of it fits together. The image fits, the verse fits. And the location would have been ideal then, and still is. It's not central Park , and it's not Ellis Island--both of which we have been told were NOT locations. It's not as problematic as Verse 10 with it's "hard word" and V and Isle of B It would free up Verse 10 to be used in Canada--I've always liked Niagara Falls as a location for that one.  Or there could be yet another location in New York state--it's not out of the question. Your thoughts? Now this is the 3rd verse that may fit battery Park . Thanks Shecrab.  More to work with.  Thats a good thing.  On the downer side, i dont have any time now to treasure hunt.  I run a travel softball club, working, and  3kids to run around for, it's tough.  As soon as something opens up I will post what I find.  I will say this though, the giant pole has concrete around it, maybe 24 ft in diameter.  Giant step? 12 in. small step? 12 ft giant step?

shecrab wrote:: Okay--so how do we make Verse 10 fit? Well, we don't. Here's where you'll have to take a leap of faith. I think this Image should be paired up with Verse 7. At stone wall's door the air smells sweet: It would. Castle Clinton is basically a big stone wall, with flowers and gardens around it. The fresh sea air would be a constant counterpoint to the stuffy city atmosphere. Battery Park has always been a famous place to "take the air" in NYC. Not far away, high posts are three Education and Justice for all to see. The 3 "high posts" would be the three places where monuments speak of education and justice: The Statue of Liberty on Liberty Island, The immigration museum on Ellis Island, and the Coast Guard on Governor's Island. In addition, "justice" could be served by the use of Castle Williams (on GI) as a prison for many many years. Sounds from the sky near ace is high Again, the Coast Guard had their base nearby--and there were many "aces" in the squadrons. There was a small airport there on GI. Running north, but first across Battery Park is north of these things that were already mentioned--and "first across" could mean the ferry, which runs North-South In jewel's direction the jewel's direction would be, then, NORTH. NOT on Governor's Island, but in Battery Park. Is an object of Twain's attention. Oh, yes there is. The Player's Club is NORTH of the park--and Mark Twain FOUNDED IT along with Edwin Booth. Certainly an object of his attention. Now comes the hard part. I found the Giant Pole.  It's here: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/mandaroak/4495692010/ But, I don't know about the Giant Step--but I'm assuming it's somewhere near the pole. I have not been able to find a lot of good pics of Battery Park that show the whole place, especially around the spar-pole. I really think there needs to be someone to walk the place and see in person. Okay---I know this is a little radical, but a lot of it fits together. The image fits, the verse fits. And the location would have been ideal then, and still is. It's not central Park, and it's not Ellis Island--both of which we have been told were NOT locations. It's not as problematic as Verse 10 with it's "hard word" and V and Isle of B It would free up Verse 10 to be used in Canada--I've always liked Niagara Falls as a location for that one.  Or there could be yet another location in New York state--it's not out of the question. Your thoughts? Now this is the 3rd verse that may fit battery Park. Thanks Shecrab.  More to work with.  Thats a good thing.  On the downer side, i dont have any time now to treasure hunt.  I run a travel softball club, working, and  3kids to run around for, it's tough.  As soon as something opens up I will post what I find.  I will say this though, the giant pole has concrete around it, maybe 24 ft in diameter.  Giant step? 12 in. small step? 12 ft giant step?

Unknown: Now this is the 3rd verse that may fit battery Park.  Thanks Shecrab.  More to work with.  Thats a good thing.  On the downer side, i dont have any time now to treasure hunt.  I run a travel softball club, working, and  3kids to run around for, it's tough.  As soon as something opens up I will post what I find.  I will say this though, the giant pole has concrete around it, maybe 24 ft in diameter.  Giant step? 12 in. small step? 12 ft giant step? Oh, cool----that could very well be it! Perhaps due north of the pole, that would indeed be a "giant step!" I could not see much of what was around the pole on any image I found on line. The pole does sit in a sort of lawn-y area--no flower beds that I could see--so that might just be a good location! And in the late 80's, in this park, the area was sort of neglected--not patrolled or too secure--it would have been (maybe!) an ideal place to dig a hole without causing any undue reaction. The reason I think this is the giant pole is that the pole looks like a mast, not just any old pole. This verse could also explain why there aren't a lot of directions to a really specific place--you would only need a compass to find true north, and that would be a very small area to dig in.  We need a digger in NYC!! (Hope the team is doing well this year!)

Unknown: Now this is the 3rd verse that may fit battery Park .  Thanks Shecrab.  More to work with.  Thats a good thing.  On the downer side, i dont have any time now to treasure hunt.  I run a travel softball club, working, and  3kids to run around for, it's tough.  As soon as something opens up I will post what I find.  I will say this though, the giant pole has concrete around it, maybe 24 ft in diameter.  Giant step? 12 in. small step? 12 ft giant step? Oh, cool----that could very well be it! Perhaps due north of the pole, that would indeed be a "giant step!" I could not see much of what was around the pole on any image I found on line. The pole does sit in a sort of lawn-y area--no flower beds that I could see--so that might just be a good location! And in the late 80's, in this park , the area was sort of neglected--not patrolled or too secure--it would have been (maybe!) an ideal place to dig a hole without causing any undue reaction. The reason I think this is the giant pole is that the pole looks like a mast, not just any old pole. This verse could also explain why there aren't a lot of directions to a really specific place--you would only need a compass to find true north, and that would be a very small area to dig in.  We need a digger in NYC!! (Hope the team is doing well this year!)

I found some good history on the Colman Dock pier clock tower in Seattle.  I don't know if any clock was present in 1980, but in 1912 the clock was knocked into the water by the Alameda, the cruise ship collided with the dock at full speed and sunk the Telegraph, a steamferry which was tied to the dock.  In 1976 the rusty salvage of the clock, lost for over 40 years was found in a warehouse and was restored and placed back at the pier in 1984.  It's an eventful bit of history and I wonder if BP drew from that, placing a pier clock in the window panel even though there wasn't one actually at the pier at the time. Anyone know if there was any other clock tower in the Washington Ferry area in 1980?

The pier clock, "XII  III  VI  IX" might simply be a way of saying "quarters".  If it isn't a way of suggesting the Colman Dock clock which wasn't there at the time Preiss set this in motion, then the idea of 'quarters' and a pier follows well enough to sync with my idea that the casque rests on the grounds right outside the Officere's Quarters building on San Juan Island.

shecrab wrote:: And here is another idea: There is a man named Scott Jordan who is an artist and a self-styled "urban archeologist" who grew up on Governor's Island. He has dug up most of the place and uses the shards and artifacts he finds to make jewelry or art objects. He also digs up a lot of stuff all over NYC. We could maybe contact him--he has a website--and ask if he (1) ever dug up a plexiglas box at any time, and (2)  if he might be interested in digging around in Battery Park. He gets permission easily because he's well-known and respectful of the site--and has a (smile) "higher purpose" to his digging.  What do you think? Unknown: Sounds fun, but I really don't have time to look for something buried by someone in the 1980's. My search is for older artifacts. These boxes will most likely found over the next one hundred years. Happy searching. I emailed this dude today. Friendly reply, but he doesn't have time for such recent burials unfortunately. Wish I could share his confidence that someone will find one of these things...

shecrab wrote:: And here is another idea: There is a man named Scott Jordan who is an artist and a self-styled "urban archeologist" who grew up on Governor's Island. He has dug up most of the place and uses the shards and artifacts he finds to make jewelry or art objects. He also digs up a lot of stuff all over NYC. We could maybe contact him--he has a website--and ask if he (1) ever dug up a plexiglas box at any time, and (2)  if he might be interested in digging around in Battery Park . He gets permission easily because he's well-known and respectful of the site--and has a (smile) "higher purpose" to his digging.  What do you think? Unknown: Sounds fun, but I really don't have time to look for something buried by someone in the 1980's. My search is for older artifacts. These boxes will most likely found over the next one hundred years. Happy searching. I emailed this dude today. Friendly reply, but he doesn't have time for such recent burials unfortunately. Wish I could share his confidence that someone will find one of these things...

I didn't expect him to actually look for it, I was hoping that maybe he had run across something that might have been a casque/box in his digging. Oh well.

The resolution isn't great but it does a good job to compare the proportions of the image outline with that of the window of the Selby Abbey.  I just chanced upon this when using the keyword 'selby'.  The historical connection to George Washington and the original elements of the US Flag are interesting. hxxp://www.selbyabbey.org.uk/washington_link.htm

I can't shake how similar these features are to this monument piece.  Looking closely at the circled area reveals some small gaps as implying this is a columned structure, note the columns in George Pickett's Virginia monument.  This was an easy find given the idea to read consider picket = Pickett.

I found a 1929 monument in honor of four of DAR's founding women, the comparison isn't exact, but it looks good:

Wait, I'm confused.  Now we are in Washington DC for this Image?  :-[ another not exact match but mine is holding a plant  ;D pretty much a perfect match for the face another near perfect match and yet we find ourselves in DC?    ???

I shouldn't have to explain how an art object can be a point of reference and yet be located elsewhere in a museum. I'm not making a foolish assertion.  But thank you for the light humor, fox.  But you might consider that Corbett is on the Columbia River and then recognize it's history and use. I researched some great stuff yesterday, so let's actually discuss it for what it is rather than what it's not. Washington D.C. is not the same as Washington the State.  The 1929 memorial statue is a valid comparison.  Im not the first person to think the image12 face looks like Lady Liberty and there really is some good NY ideas here.  Are we allowed to consider BP is trying to mislead us?  The idea that I focus on a women's organization about the involvement of women in our country's history is worth consideration when looking at a picture that uses a woman as it's focus.  The similarities are enough to consider.  I'm not claiming to have an exact match.  When we do we are foolishly assuming everything JJP has done must follow the same silly rule, which of course he has not, thankfully we have chicago and Cleveland to show this. What I have done is located a large rock, classified as a glacial erratic, that was carried by water/ice to the top of a high meadow.  This rock, called Robert's Rock, has a plaque dedication from the first chapter of the Daughters of the American Revolution, which has many chapters in every state, but it's first organizational meeting actually happened in Washington [State of, NOT D.C. ].  That match to verse alone might not be convincing, but it does draw some interest.  The memorial for this organizations founders is in D.C. and it happens to have similarities to our character in the image, a woman, white gowned, parted hair, arms extended.  There are also differences, why?  I maintain this is being used as a clever "late morning" (11 o'clock) depiction of Morning Mist, General George Picketts late 2nd wife of Native American decent, note the brownish skin.

erexere wrote:: Are we allowed to consider BP is trying to mislead us? Very possibly. Incidentally the National Portrait Gallery at the Smithsonian a few blocks away has the photo of "Edwin Booth and daughter Edwina"... hxxp://npgportraits.si.edu/eMuseumNPG/c ... yle=single The Smithsonian also published "Abroad in America" from where we get Sarmiento and Edwin, to accompany an exhibition of that name. hxxp://www.ramakrishna.org/sv_sa.htm (...although I still think this image is NY, which has plenty of white-gowned women of its own...)

I'm not using light humor here.  BP said this is a simple hunt, when no internet existed.  Why would he use 11 easily recognizable cities such as Cleveland, Chicago, etc and 1 unknown town with a population of appx 4,000? Forgive me for assuming we were discussing DC.  I saw the DAR pic captioned in DC and the Picket Memorial in VA....I just assumed it was Burke, VA which is basically a suburb of DC. Back to my curiosity:  Now not only are we in a tiny town, but we are using visual confirmers located on the other side of the United States?  I don't get it

Maybe we all dont interpret simple the same way.  BP was wicked clever.  A visual confirmer or a non visual confirmer is simply information and because of the internet and because of 30 years passing time that information has propagated and perhaps metamophised to an extent by the subjective retelling of history. So, i dont wish to provoke or argue boldly against anything someone else here is working with.  Please allow me to apologize since i clearly dont understand your refutations or help in this forum.  I have detected some casual humor and maybe i dont understand that either. I like the NY elements too.  I know Priess said it should've all been solved sooner.  He also said NY's central park wasnt a site. As for Corbett, I dont hold a narrow view such that select statistics must compare.  Its less than 30 minutes, like a pizza delivery away from Portland Airport.  Portland isnt such a small population center as you must think. As for NY, I lived there for a couple years, maybe thats the only reason I like that point of view as well.

Maybe we all dont interpret simple the same way.  BP was wicked clever.  A visual confirmer or a non visual confirmer is simply information and because of the internet and because of 30 years passing time that information has propagated and perhaps metamophised to an extent by the subjective retelling of history. So, i dont wish to provoke or argue boldly against anything someone else here is working with.  Please allow me to apologize since i clearly dont understand your refutations or help in this forum.  I have detected some casual humor and maybe i dont understand that either. I like the NY elements too.  I know Priess said it should've all been solved sooner.  He also said NY's central park wasnt a site. As for Corbett, I dont hold a narrow view such that select statistics must compare.  Its less than 30 minutes, like a pizza delivery away from Portland Airport.  Portland isnt such a small population center as you must think. As for NY, I lived there for a couple years, maybe thats the only reason I like that point of view as well.

To be fair, Roanoke Island isn't exactly a bustling metropolis, yet we're pretty sure there is a casque buried there. On the other hand, it *is* a significant site with respect to the immigration theme. I believe all 12 sites will have a tie-in to immigration.

Has anyone looked at the DeSoto history?  That explorer dude dressed just like Ponce deLeon.  The bird in image 12 looks remarkably similar to the Chrysler Building in NYC.  Interestingly the "DeSoto" was an early Chrysler product line.  To clarify, since Ponce is in image 6 I hope it's not wrong of me to raise the DeSoto question about image 12.  I don't want to upset anyone if there's some rule about making certain there is absolutely no underlying connections.  That's just what I'm wondering...if there is to be a connecting branch of history, then why not look more closely at the prunings?

Nice resource on possibly historically relevant matters: hxxp://www.nps.gov/sajh/parknews/upload ... -Color.pdf

erexere wrote:: I don't want to upset anyone if there's some rule about making certain there is absolutely no underlying connections.  That's just what I'm wondering...if there is to be a connecting branch of history, then why not look more closely at the prunings? Totally go for it. There are no rules, no guidelines, beyond if you come up with a radical idea be prepared to defend it. I personnally love to hear new ideas, but I will try very hard to shoot it down.

erexere wrote:: There are no rules, no guidelines, beyond if you come up with a radical idea be prepared to defend it. Is Fast and Furious involved?

I've put together a PDF summarising my solution for image 12... hxxp://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... ytrail.pdf I really think this is the spot. So frustrating that boogieman gave up the challenge.  :bang) Before, I didn't understand: "twice as many east steps as the hour or more from the middle of one branch of the V". I think it's like this. Take twice as many east steps as the hour Or more From the middle of one branch Of the v Look down And see simple roots In rhapsodic man's soil If you take 22 east steps from the casque site, then you reach the middle of one branch of the V, and from there you can look down and see simple roots – grass. The “rhapsodic man” is George Gershwin of Rhapsody in Blue, who was raised here in Brooklyn. (Also note that his family was Russian, and this is the Russian image.) Or gaze north Toward the isle of B. Or instead, you could gaze north from the casque site, and see the “isle of B”. This is Bedloe’s island, the old name for Liberty Island. You can look north and see the statue from here. Sure it's convoluted. But then we all know it's no wonder no-one has solved it in 30 years.

Since only BP had/knew the solutions, what is getting the photographer or sculptress to look at your site, going to do for you?

I'm still here rabbit.  I'll tell you what, after checking out your PDF, I got interested again.  My problem is time.  My kids were all under 10 when this started and now they are teenagers and I coach all three in their sports which is year round now.  I promise that in the near future I will go there and DIG!  I could use another set if eyes with me.  My family just laughs at me now.  Lol. Maybe Fix can take another trip up.......thanks for keeping up with this.

Ha.  Didn't have iPhones when I started this either.  I would have quit a lot sooner if they did.  Lol. I meant to say Fox, not fix.

Hey Boogie, good to see you still hanging around this crazy forum! MF, just reaching out for possible interested NY contacts.

If I had the money my friend, I would happily take another trip to the Apple to dig up another casque....and my family (probably) wouldn't laugh at me.  Last week, my son took the NY Subway key you gave him to school for show and tell... all his friends thought it was sooooooo cool!  Maybe if we get up there again to help you dig, you could swing a subway car to go along with the key.... Go out and dig this thing up my friend...with or without your family.

. Those keys are out of service now.  We have a whole new fleet.  A key like that will be in a museum one day, along with a casque I dig up in NY.

boogieman wrote:: ...... will be in a museum one day, along with a casque I dig up in NY. hmmmmm, if the key no longer works since you have a new fleet....then would I be correct in assuming the cars have changed as well?  So you COULD swing one for us Just be sure to post Fragile on the package....a damaged subway car would do us no good.  lol

I'll try to dig one out of the ocean.  Some were used to make artificial reefs. I could use a hand on that one too! And just so you all know, the toll to get to Brooklyn has gone up to $16.  Send money!!!!

Does anyone see the similarity of this image to that of the origin of Pegasus? The white winged horse sprang forth from the sea.  White robed woman floating above surf. Pegasus created the Hippocrene.  Keats refers to the fountain in Ode to a Nightengale. Maybe the woman is to be seen as Aphrodite and the seabird is to be seen in reference to a winged creature.  I'm surprised this aspect of sea foam and origins in Greek myth haven't been discussed yet.

erexere wrote:: Maybe the woman is to be seen as Aphrodite and the seabird is to be seen in reference to a winged creature.  I'm surprised this aspect of sea foam and origins in Greek myth haven't been discussed yet. WhiteRabbit wrote:: I think the book includes references to Classical mythology, and this pic put me in mind of Venus/Aphrodite , "born of the sea foam" (aphros). boogieman wrote:: And just so you all know, the toll to get to Brooklyn has gone up to $16.  Send money!!!! ...yep, that was my first impression of this image (P35). There's a link to Liberty there. "The entire statue is of copper, the metal of Venus." I'll pay the darn toll already. Now go!

Lol Rabbit.  But there is snow on the ground.

Hey, search function didn't bring that post o my attn.  I wonder why?

Shecrab pointed out that Geese honk, not bugles.  I really like the way that works with the line "I can still hear the honking".  It gives me the idea that it might be "I can still see Goose Island" when standing at the casque site.  I expect someone will say its free association to get Goose Island from 'honking'...but what else is there given the situation?  San Juan Island is a very simple landscape without many distinct place names or structures.  The lighthouse edifice is a good stand out.  I think Shecrab is right on the money with the Goose reference. The green box is the location of the American Camp, the yellow box looks similar to one of the shapes in the spires on the window of image 12, the blue box is the area where the cattle point light house is located, and the "A" is the location of Goose Island, a sizable island right off the east coast of San Juan Island.  The lighthouse has a door and wall that really is a spot on match to this other panel in the window. Btw, reevaluating some I believe there are five or six good possible casque locations in SJI.  A closer perspective will be needed.

erexere -- I think we've established that there was a goose pond on the FOY premises at the time the casque was buried. Actual, honking geese *right there.*

forest_blight wrote:: erexere -- I think we've established that there was a goose pond on the FOY premises at the time the casque was buried. Actual, honking geese *right there.* Thank you FB, now you have forced my hand...I must put a tracker on a goose in FOY and see if it migrates to San Juan Island.

I have just two friends who actively play in the symphony.  One plays harp and the other is violin.  I also vendor with the Eugene Symphony office and I just asked them for their thoughts on the social graces with the use of the term 'honk' in reference to horn players.  Of course they agree with shecrab as it applies to classical musicians but interestingly it serves in an endearing capacity in jazz circles. Aint that a hoot!

No sorry, Owls Hoot.

I have also heard that a nose is sometimes called a "honker" but that doesn't mean it's polite.

boogieman wrote:: But there is snow on the ground. It's melted by now, surely...? May 1st heralds the fire tide. Time to kick ass.

Perhaps the right way to consider this image is to see the window framed within the picture as a picture representation of the frame narrative style or a story within a story. We have a bird in the window and a woman holding a white rose. In Oscar Wilde's short story, the Nightingale and the Rose, there is a passionate story about a bird who holds its breast against a thorn of a rose bush which has been chilled white, but will become red if the the bird sings to the moonlight.

I am finding sufficient material to support a strong thesis of feminism at work in this image.  As I said, the Virginia Woolf connection appeals solely from verse 9, but things get moving when I land on the lighthouse idea, also hinted by verse.  There's a snug connection to Keats (writ in water) if we allow a Shelley perspective.  Mary Shelly's mother Mary Wollstonecraft, a huge mover in the feminist world, was biographied by Virginia Woolf. Byron Preiss uses a rooster as his publishing logo.  Florence Nightingale's statistical chart, the Nightingale Rose, is more commonly known as a coxcomb, which happens to be a flower and a roosters iconic head growth.  Florence is a remarkably strong figure in the history of the woman's movement.  I think the first chapter of the DAR movement, founded in Washington State really embodies the role of women in times of war just as Florence Nightengale bore the lamp for the wounded.

Comment note:  Wollstone- = Stonewall?  Have I tripped over a minor resonance with another verse?

Promyshlenniki Russian traders met with Pickett and he traded furs for a red cedar box which was filled with personal affects and sent with his half-Indian son Jimmy after the death of Morning Mist.  I think the Moorish architecture present in the window pane just left of the woman's face is an indication of that box. I think this image and verse 9 both connect with a focus on Pickett's life.  I like the connection between Pickett, the events of Gettysburg and the book by Preiss, American Heritage History of the Battle of Gettysburg.

Virginia Woolfs book To the Lighthouse has three chapters in its table of contents:  The Window, Time Passes, To the Lighthouse.  This image IS a window with panes.  The Window IS the "first chapter".  The last line of verse 9 is "years pass, rain falls".  These words do stand out in the book as well.  This is all verY lighthousey.

I just noticed that shape outlined between the seabird's feet where his legs are tucked together is the shape of Goose Island.  The neckline of the woman is also the basic shape of the roadway where it branches off to the historical Redoubt and American Camp sites.  This is all starting to look very much like the Cleveland solution.  Using maltedfalcon's approach, I think the iconic feature is the rear view of the Cattle Point Lighthouse with Goose Island in the immediate background, then it's east along Cattle Point Rd. till you hit Pickett's Lane (left) and then the next right towards the Redoubt (these two turns match the line between color and shade along the woman's neckline when turned upside down).  Then there's the two memorials, fruit trees, narrow arch and flagstaff.  Among all these features, there's nothing much else to look at, in otherwords, there's no other choice, just a simple look around a big open prairie and notice there's just a few prominent features which are perfectly hinted at when switching perspective to verse 9.  Since this leads to an army base with a tall tree, within or behind a picket fence, I think the treasure ground is in a remote spot outside it's perimeter, near the fruit trees at an intersecting point between "arch and flagpole" and "the Rock" (nickname for Robert's Rock).  See how the bird is "flying" in the middle of the arch?  Perhaps we need to center our perspective on the flag "flying" in the middle of the picket fence archway.  This actually creates a line that intersects closely with the fruit orchard (bending branches).  I think it should be no problem digging in that area.  I'll post a map later.

Okay, too excited, I think something I initially hoped wouldn't matter, but now I'm thinking does factor in and most likely affects other solutions in the same way is that a land mark has been relocated.  The Washington Historical Society placed an obelisk monument in 1904 just a small distance away from Robert's Rock.  It's about the same distance the flagpole and picket arch in the camp are separated.  I think it's original location might affect how we locate the spot in the orchard just north of the Redoubt.  It might not look like much but there are just a small number of trees, I think 4 trees stand symmetrically which is why it was recognized as a remnant to an old orchard farm.  Anyone who knows orchards would see that the trees are all planted in plots, like the "ten by thirteen" of Chicago.

Ahh, discovery.  Too bad, my intersecting lines theory doesn't pan out.  I discovered the obelisk was located up on the east side edge of the Redoubt fortification wall.  It does not participate in forming an alignment consistent with my theory.  Perhaps the simplest way to look at this is flagpole to arch, center to center directs us to the area where four fruit trees stand.  Dig in the center?  Looks like some luck will be needed unless someone wants to use a hundred feet of string and run it from tree to tree to determine the exact center...or just eyeball it.  I'm thinking Preiss just performed a quick study of the site and planted the casque thinking it was an easy task to navigate to the center of four droplets...

Here's some shapes to study: I know I posted an image of the lighthouse door before but I don't think I cropped it properly so we can see how it completely fits rather than an carefully manipulated cut and paste to muck up interpretation. This is a vertical inverse exactly as is done in the Cleveland #4 image to match the curved road along the park.  Here it fits the one and only main road along this part of the island and the one and only junction off of it to meet this particular historic site. Here is a 90 degree rotation, not too bad for 30 years worth of errosion and some road work.  The belt of the sash even holds the same slight angle curve of road.

erexere -- I'm not buying your theories, but I sure love window shopping here.

fb, thanks for having a look. Maybe you can clear something up for me, which came first the Pickett or the fence?

Let me write the answer on this Möbius strip and send it to you.

Rotate the picture clockwise (90 degrees) and look closely at the seabirds tail section.  It looks like a tree, branches extending from the main trunk.

Near men with wind rose, Notice the positions of No.11, the Flag Pole, "stars move by day," a US flag moved by wind. The markers are viewable almost in line with eachother from a spot near the arch, I noticed that taking a straight line through the arch across the parade grounds puts you at point that might resemble the angles of the arms on the clock panel with a short arm pointing to the No.11 marker and a longer arm to the No.12 marker just to the right of center at the porch of the Officer's Quarters (Near Men).

wouldnt you need to draw the lines to the bottom of the flag pole the lines you drew would only work for the picture taken from this exact angle.

I'm unsure of what is really expected as a locating method.  I think I have a rough idea laid out, which aims at finding a specific tree.  I have some variables in my graphic which is presented in a standard north as top perspective.  The lines I drew were from the markers themselves.  I like using the flagpole itself as an alignment element.  It still depends on what's really going on here.  For now, I have used the idea that you walk through the arch (a path perpendicular to the picket fence) until you find a spot that has 90 degrees on the No.12 marker.  That is a spot in the middle of the parade grounds.  It's out in the open, and inside the fence.  I don't really like that spot if Preiss was trying to be somewhat sneaky in his burying.  Also, does "behind bending branches / and a picket fence" translate to "behind a picket fence"?  Does behind a fence mean inside or outside the perimeter?

yeah its tough. In florida I was standing beside the only green picket fence around and I couldnt figure out a verse. I was just noting that if you were going to draw lines on the image and say look at those and the figure they make. that if you drew them to the top of the pole, then the lines would "hang" in space change in every picture you took from a different location. however if you drew to the base of the pole the lines would be fixed along the ground.

Oh, I see what you mean.  I'm no longer trying to shoehorn every solution into a super precise math and angle kind of method.  I'm sure there is a precision method, but it's not going to be math.  A rectangle here or there might apply, but given the nature of the verse and image, there is bound to be some very precise perspective, which will be clear when you're standing at the right spot only. I've produced a lot of crap for folks to sift through or ignore if they prefer, but I should be doing a reevaluation soon and I'll provide a short summary of what I believe to be keeper ideas.  In the future, the lines I draw are really intended as "stand here and look there" or "here's a rough path along the streets or through a park". I hope folks find they are closer to something fruitful in the coming year.

IIRC,we were looking in brooklyn at some could be sites,i ran across these maps,and not sure if these old maps mark things that are no longer marked on newer maps,or no longer there, anyway maybe they will help,and IDR if we decided on a V,hey spring is around the corner hxxp://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com/Map/Maps.Main.html

cw0909 wrote:: IIRC,we were looking in brooklyn at some could be sites,i ran across these maps,and not sure if these old maps mark things that are no longer marked on newer maps,or no longer there, anyway maybe they will help,and IDR if we decided on a V,hey spring is around the corner hxxp://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com/Map/Maps.Main.html thanks buddy. these maps are beautiful. it cool to think that the city was so big over a century ago.

maltedfalcon wrote:: yeah its tough. In florida I was standing beside the only green picket fence around and I couldnt figure out a verse. I was just noting that if you were going to draw lines on the image and say look at those and the figure they make. that if you drew them to the top of the pole, then the lines would "hang" in space change in every picture you took from a different location. however if you drew to the base of the pole the lines would be fixed along the ground. For those of us that have never been to florida, how big is the area of the green fence? Is it a fenced off square or is it just one long fence?

The fence is about 20 feet long, it is past the picnic area and outside of the park proper it was in the yard of a property owner and there was a big do not disturb the nesting peacocks near it.

11 o'clock.  Does that possibly mean the "last hour"?  "Eleventh hour", seems like something I've heard to describe the last possible moment before a significant event.  I've tried putting the "Judgement Day/Gabriel's Horn" idea to work in Image 1, but I'm recycling the idea with respect to a woman rising up from the surface of the world (ocean surf in the image) towards the sky (heaven?). Is this possibly a representation of St. Catherine?  I'm looking again at verse 9 and seeing the line 'with wind rose' and I wonder if 'wind rose' is close enough to 'rose window' which is referred to architecturally as a Catherine window for it's similarity in shape and design to the spiked wheel used in the execution of St. Catherine (which broke, she was was then beheaded). St. Catherine was a patron of virginity.  Does a woman wearing a white dress symbolize virginity?

Wind rose is a compass, I dont see any assocation past that indicated.

maltedfalcon, yes, with the cut and dry point of view, wind rose compass is the given.  The nice historic presentation in FOY looks like a great find for this, only nobody including Stercox has drawn a decent point of reference from it's location compared to other spots of interest.  The whole perspective seems lost in a discussion about shifting fence boundaries. I've been looking at Image 12 as a "window" painting.  I wouldn't expect the verse to draw attention to the same item of reference if the image is already doing that job, but just in case, I wanted to consider a word playful idea.  ROSE WINDow is just a small adjustment to WIND ROSE.  I'm using both to focus on San Juan Island and unfortunately I'm not seeing any circular windows or nearby Cathedrals.  Seems like a dead end for that thought process.

I think I've been staring at these images too long. Starting to see things that aren't there... or are they? While looking at image 12 I noticed something. In my verse 10 idea I said to flip to whole image over and look at the part of the dress hanging off the waist. I have an update. This is easier if you have a hard copy of the image or an ipad. But flip the image over. Now tilt it away from you at about a 45 degree angle or more and look at that part of the dress. Maybe close one eye. What do you see? Well I see a view of the face of the statue of liberty from her left side. Her arm is in the background with the wrinkles in the sleeve and the arm going up. The shadows near the top of the face could be the points of the crown. And it looks like it's just her nose, mouth and chin, no eyes. The mouth being what people think is an eye if the image is looked at right side up. Am I crazy? This may be a defininitive clue for those not thinking NY. She may be our "grey giant". Let me know what you think. Deuce

I believe you.  It suggests the SoL as much as it may be intended to.  I'm just not sold on the idea, mostly for a conflict in my own theory about image 12, but mostly again for how I am learning to be wary of some fishy attempts to misdirect and puzzle us.  I have absolutely no doubt Preiss meant to confuse us with options.  Image 12 looked like the SoL from the first time I saw it.  The drape of the dress fit the outline of the Battery Park area, which I am very familiar with since I lived 2 years nearby.  If you ask me, it's a trick.  Hope I can prove it someday.

Do you think he would go out of his way to use a hidden clue to throw us off though? I think we're making this thing harder than it has to be. We need to look at the obvious. There's not a whole lot to some of these images. To throw in a red herring with so few clues as it is would make it impossible. I personally think that he didn't do anything to throw us off. We need to stick to the basics.

Some are easy, some are difficult. We have to assume at some point that we might be working with a difficult one.  Images 4 and 5 were either the hard ones or the easy ones.  We don't know how many of the 12 were going to be easy.

erexere wrote:: Some are easy, some are difficult. We have to assume at some point that we might be working with a difficult one.  Images 4 and 5 were either the hard ones or the easy ones.  We don't know how many of the 12 were going to be easy. Actually BP said he thought they were all easy and that they would be all solved within a year. The actual progress has occurred when we stick to the basics and find similarities with the solved puzzles.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Actually BP said he thought they were all easy and that they would be all solved within a year. The actual progress has occurred when we stick to the basics and find similarities with the solved puzzles. My comment is based on a citation from an interview shortly after the hunt was published.  I looked around for the link here but I can't find it.  Maybe someone sent me the archive in an email.  Go ahead and disregard until I find the proof, but I thought it was very interesting that he clarified that some may never be solved. It was presented like an advertisement, discussing the odd and mysterious fairies of the book.  I don't think it was the Chicago Tribune.  The Milwaukee Sentinel perhaps? Damn, I loaned my book out, and now i need it to jog my memory.

interesting door at worth obelisk nyc

looks like the hidden shape of a stop sign.

Unknown: It was presented like an advertisement, discussing the odd and mysterious fairies of the book.  I don't think it was the Chicago Tribune.  The Milwaukee Sentinel perhaps? Damn, I loaned my book out, and now i need it to jog my memory. It was a newspaper cutting from Chicago Tribune 11/16/82: "Preiss says some of the puzzles are easy, and some are hard. He expects at least one treasure to be unearthed within 30 days. Others, of course, may never be found." the "of course" is ominous

A canceled flight last week left me with an opportunity to spend a day in Manhattan. We made it a "daycation" so I didn't have much freedom to hunt for casques, but I was able to take a few snapshots of Columbus Circle between bagels and pretzels: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/columbus.circle.1.jpg hxxp://kspot.org/trove/columbus.circle.2.jpg hxxp://kspot.org/trove/columbus.circle.3.jpg hxxp://kspot.org/trove/columbus.circle.4.jpg hxxp://kspot.org/trove/columbus.circle.5.jpg

Refresh my memory....why Columbus Circle?

Someone brought it up once as being close to Central Park but not *in* it. Also, it was close to my hotel.

Someone brought it up once as being close to Central Park but not *in* it. Also, it was close to my hotel.

This is near perfection as a match given that other factors mainly the verse brought me to this area and then in the spass landscape here is a lone radio beacon lighthouse in the background.  A radio beacon specifically designed for total darkness navigation where a ship is 100% engulft in misty fog.  It's also a much better interpretation than a dark planetarium, because it applies to total darkness and not just a low light setting.  Notice how the boundaries of this lighthouse and centered door fit precisely the panel in the image. This view came up a few times when I googled for images, so I expect it's a common spot to take photo's from.  A bench? I cut the water part into two main sections and then flipped and rotated each and stacked them to see if some of the contours or striations matched at all.  I can't tell, but the scene looks like it could've been developed from a polaroid. And this is nearby, the arched portion of fence around Pickett's military encampment,

close not perfect, there is a extra room above the real door.  (the layer just under the roof) The door is narrower than the rectangle. or the rectangle is taller (take your pick) what does the red line on the gate indicate?

I drew it as a reference line.  I wanted to draw attention to the thicknessof that portion of the fence's arch as a possible match to the thickness of space between the windows and outer arch.

I found some info on the sports logo for the Seattle Seahawks that points to the Haida Eagle as it's influence. hxxp://www.greenglare.com/seahawks_logo_design.html Morning Mist was a Haida Indian woman.  I have a good fit for many features of this image pointing to her which can't be ruled out. Captain Pickett mairried her.  Woman is wearing a white dress.  Wedding dresses are white. Her name is Morning Mist.  Woman is floating with large water droplets.  Mist is defined as drops of water suspended in air. Her hair color and skin tone are also indicative of the typical hair color found in Native Indian people.

Hey Sercet hunters!!!! Glad to be back.  I was just visiting Fort hamilton High.  I took my kids and walked around Shore park.  It was just a stop over after a weekend trip so I was not prepared to dig.  But I am going to. A lot of the park is under construction just across the street from the school.  I was able to walk to those familiar triangle lots just off the Belt Parkway.  The place was wildly overgrown and from the area where this thing may be, you can barely see anything through the trees and brush. I did however catch a good view of the clock.  And guess what time it was?  Guess-what-time-it-was? 11:00 on the nose. I am going back soon.  LOL  How is Regulus?  I first need to reaclimate myself to this site,  i have no idea how to post pics anymore.  Is there a Facebook site for this?  FB, Fox, Cw, malted, and others, I've missed you all.

Hey Sercet hunters!!!! Glad to be back.  I was just visiting Fort hamilton High.  I took my kids and walked around Shore park .  It was just a stop over after a weekend trip so I was not prepared to dig.  But I am going to. A lot of the park is under construction just across the street from the school.  I was able to walk to those familiar triangle lots just off the Belt Parkway.  The place was wildly overgrown and from the area where this thing may be, you can barely see anything through the trees and brush. I did however catch a good view of the clock.  And guess what time it was?  Guess-what-time-it-was? 11:00 on the nose. I am going back soon.  LOL  How is Regulus?  I first need to reaclimate myself to this site,  i have no idea how to post pics anymore.  Is there a Facebook site for this?  FB, Fox, Cw, malted, and others, I've missed you all.

nice to see you to boogieman, so not so busy now cool,how many free wknds do you have b4 the deep freeze LOL

Still busy, but most of Nov and Dec are free.  Looks like I found a smartphone app to post pics.  Cool. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

Greetings boogieman. Hey, you oughta drop in on NY doll/casquemaker Jo-Ellen Trilling - last I heard she still had some dolls from the book she hadn't sold, and she reckons she's even got a spare casque somewhere. That would be an awesome souvenir. Though, of course, I'm sure you'll find the one buried in Brooklyn sooner or later.  ;) hxxp://joellentrilling.com/jo-ellen%20trilling.html Stick this on your iPhone - we're counting on you. hxxp://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/fet ... et_OCR.pdf

Thanks Rabbit.  I'll certainly keep her in mind. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

The boogie is back thought we lost you for good. Welcome back my friend. You sure have A LOT to catch up on

I've not found lat long coords here.  If there are anh, I'd hope they would be 48 and 123.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: If we take the Image 9 coords for NY, then what do you make of possible Image 12 coords Egbert...? The clearest numbers I see are 36 on the flower (turn sideways)... ...could also be 63,38, 83 etc... ...and 50 in the waves. (Turn the picture 90 deg anticlockwise and the "5" is the breaking wave.) 63, 50 is the Havre-Sainte-Pierre area near Newfoundland. Image 12 is difficult, since most of the hidden objects appear to be in the water and waves. The flower appears to me to have either the number 30, or even 300.  I don't see 36, WhiteRabbit. As for the waves, my gosh, you can see almost anything in the waves.  I outlined below what I think I see if you turn the image upside-down, but 1-digit numbers are not much help.  There are numbers to the right, but the first digit may not be a 1, and it may only be a 2-digit number.  The middle digit is either a 2 or a 3, and the last digit is either a 4 or a 1. In the water are also quite a few things, and they could be letters or numbers.  I just circled the 2 items I thought were relevant.  They could be letters or numbers.  From the angle below, they look like 19 or JP, and 74 or 174 or 24 or 124.  If you turn the picture upside-down, the 74 then looks like FL. There are also what I believe to be letters in the water.  I can definitely see the letter A, but I think there are 3 letters, and A is in the middle.  I remember an optical illusion book I read once, where the letters were elongated, and if you looked at the page from a lower angle (you can't do that with a computer), you can see the letters clearly. Lastly, take a look at her robes.  The sleeve on the left appears to have a shape that is relevant.  It "pops out" of the picture, and is trying to blend in with the rest of the robe.  I believe we will find that symbol near the treasure.  Also, I see a partial face in the robe. I have to admit, I am disappointed that I cannot find the coordinates for Vancouver (unless you use 124, but that is a bit of a stretch).  Here is a link to a pretty good map of Canada with latitudes and longitudes (scroll to the bottom): https://gcps.desire2learn.com/d2l/lor/viewer/viewFile.d2lfile/6605/5027/39CanadaMapSkills_print.html I like WhiteRabbit's book find of Newfoundland.  I still think this is the Canadian picture for the treasure, not NY (I know, you are going to point out the 74 in the water).  I am hoping that the silhouette of the Russian Orthodox Church is that of an actual building, and that once we find it, we will know we are near treasure ground.  It is an unusual silhouette, since the onion domes are different sizes.

Egbert wrote:: There are also what I believe to be letters in the water.  I can definitely see the letter A, but I think there are 3 letters, and A is in the middle.  I remember an optical illusion book I read once, where the letters were elongated, and if you looked at the page from a lower angle (you can't do that with a computer), you can see the letters clearly. I like that. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw that water. That old optical illusion. I tried it on the robe in the image a while back too. Didn't get much feedback though. Flip the image and use the same process to look at the spot where you see that face on the robe. I see a left side view of the Statue of Liberty's face with the wrinkled sleeve of her raised arm in the background. Maybe an ink blot test but that's what I see. Can't really post a pic of that angle here to show it though.

I already tried the distortion on the San Francisco panorama at the top of image 1. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i ... ic=770.780 I wondered if JJP's use of outlining in bright blue was a hint that the picture needed to be looked at differently. If you try it on FOY image you get an enhanced three dimensional result from the rocks that indicates a Y shaped path. However, the sleeve on the left of this image 12 if tilted gives 73 perhaps.

I think I've found the match to the sleeve of the robe.  It's a rooftop.

Maybe this shows better what I'm looking at.  The exact angle I want isn't available, so things are a little off.  The second house wasn't there in 1982.

looking the other way, towards Cattle Point and Goose Island you can see Robert's Rock at the Redoubt,

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Ferry Building: Hmmm.  8 years ago, Siskel and I took a trip to Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty, as well as a trip all around Brooklyn.  We saw these eagles, and did not think it was quite a match back then.  However, in this photo, in certainly looks like it. Alright, I am going to throw up my hands and throw out all the NY clues for Image 12.  However, it still does not make sense to me that the topaz, the Russian prize, is New York, while the opal of the Dutch lowland gnomes is Canada. First, there is the 74 in the water, one of the coordinates for NY. Second, the bottom of the robe looks like the bottom of Manhattan, complete with the 3 water droplets symbolizing the 3 islands. Third, and I do not have a clear picture of it right now, but there are onion domes on Ellis Island. Fourth, as you know, the Ellis Island harbor looks like the rectangle in Image 12. Okay, someone please explain how the Russians and the topaz are associated with New York, while the Dutch and the opal are associated with Canada.  If you can do that, then I am back on the New York bandwagon for Image 12.

Egbert wrote:: Okay, someone please explain how the Russians and the topaz are associated with New York, while the Dutch and the opal are associated with Canada. Unknown: The first Dutch people to come to Canada were Dutch-Americans among the United Empire Loyalists. The largest wave was in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century when large numbers of Dutch helped settle the Canadian west. During this period significant numbers also settled in major cities like Toronto. While interrupted by the First World War this migration returned in the 1920s Unknown: Composer George Gershwin's life and music is remembered for the centenary of his birth and a consideration of the history and post-Soviet boom in Russian immigration to New York. The Dutch are all over Canada. You can't move for Dutch people. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadians_of_Dutch_descent The footnotes on P27 reference the "Beaver Wars" between the Dutch and the Iroquois which were up north somewhere, Canada probably. The Russians settled in New York, Gershwin is most likely the "rhapsodic man", and his family were Russian immigrants. Eg, quick Google search: hxxp://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00yjnv1

Yes, I know that Russians immigrated to New York City.  My family was one of them. I really want Image 12 to be New York, but let me tell you what is puzzling me: pp. 13-14:  "The venerable Dutch merchant empire of the Lowland Alven was also in its autumn.  Their sailor-servants, the Klabautermannikins, made ready their broad-bottomed boats, and away they sailed, to settle peaceably, at length, among rolling hills by a wide river richly lined with cliffs and trees.  Clear, running creeks they found there, and wildcats in abundance, wherefore they named their new home 'Kaaterskill' (Wildcat Creek)." Kaaterskill is in the Catskill Mountains in New York State. hxxp://thekaaterskill.com/ hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaterskill_Falls hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaterskill_High_Peak pp. 29-30:  "Consider a group of those frugal Lowland Dwarves, the Alven, hovering, invisible, and observing in economic agony while their old friends the Canarsie tribe traded Manhattan Island for a handful of trinkets!  (Could it be that they believed Peter Minuit's glass baubles possessed the same worth as the Alven's Treasure-Stone?)" Peter Minuit was Dutch, from the Netherlands, and he was the one who supposedly purchased Manhattan from the Native Americans here. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Minuit p. 21:  "The Opal of the Lowland Gnomes:  A cloud of shining, shifting smoke." Image 9 has an opal in it, the birthstone of October.  There is a roman numeral X in Image 9. I could have missed it, but I do not see a reference to the Lowland tribe in Canada.  When the book talks about the Russians, who hold the topaz (Image 12), there is almost no description as to where they landed. So, this is what I am wrangling with.  How do we say the Dutch are NOT associated with New York?

Russia works with the NW of America (Canada or US).  Hasn't anyone here played RISK?

Egbert wrote:: Hmmm.  8 years ago, Siskel and I took a trip to Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty, as well as a trip all around Brooklyn.  We saw these eagles, and did not think it was quite a match back then.  However, in this photo, in certainly looks like it. I know you did the whole tour, but I guess we'll have to disagree on the match. Some folks around the net seem to be confused about the fact that there are two sets of eagle sculptures on Ellis island, and most of the time when people are dismissing the "no match", they're looking at and discussing the bird on the main building which definitely does not match. The Ferry Building birds, on the other hand.... hell, it even has the tongue in image 12, just like the sculpture. Regardless, I think it's a much better connection (both visually and geographically) than the Chrysler gargoyle theory.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing on the match.  I did not know that there were a 2nd set of eagles.  I guess I never went over to look at the ferry building.  That's definitely a match. Now, if someone has the time, the feathers of the bird in the Image, or the negative space between them, look a lot like the piers that stick out everywhere around Manhattan and the surrounding area.  It could also be a skyline.  I tried matching them to something, but I did not come up with anything.

I agree 100% that the detail and similarity in image 12 is intended to match Ellis Island.  I think that conclusion goes one of two ways, 1) the casque is buried on Ellis Island, or 2) some kind of clue is represented by Ellis Island and it justifies the final location and/or the method of orientation. I've been analyzing some other treasure hunts and it's not uncommon for them to build a clue around a location that isn't anywhere near the treasure.  Does anyone remember the Silver Key?  It was a Music CD type hunt with a 1000 dollar cash prize plus an album sales royalty.  Art work in the packaging and on the CD itself were stylized as clues.  One in particular was a bingo card.  Egbert would've solved it in a heartbeat with his trusty Periodic Table cheatsheet.  The numbers on the card transcribed as "Eu Ge Ne O Re", which was confirmed one year into the hunt by the hunt's author on their website/blog as the correct answer: Eugene, Oregon.  That's when I got involved.  I traced the clues to a spot just on the southeast edge of town called Mt. Pisgah on Highway 58.  Another confirmed clue read "HEMILY SUNFLOWER" which I surmised meant "Mile HY Sunflower" and I decided to continue on Hwy58 til I reached Mt. Ray (Sun and rays drawn together look like a sunflower) at the south end of 1 mile elevation Waldo Lake.  That's where my journey ended without finding the Silver Key.  After the 2 year hunt expired, the author announced the state that it was hidden in: NC.  WTF???  What the author had done is used the fact that there are two Mt. Pisgah's in the US, one in OR and one in NC.  It was a dreadful red herring, given that the author confirmed the Oregon based clue.  It just goes to show you how the discovery or answer to something in a puzzle isn't always for the purpose of THAT specific location. So, Ellis Island:  1) it's an island formerly known as Oyster Island, 2) ferryboats bring many tourists to it's shore, 3) the Statue of Liberty holds a torch of "frozen fire" for those who believe in the LotJ. I belive this all fits with San Juan Island: 1) it's an island formerly rich in abalone, 2) ferryboats bring many tourists, 3) a miniature statue of Liberty at Alki Point in Washington might be a worthy lateral shift.

I remember The Silver Key -- it was good fun while it lasted, but you're right, what a dreadful red herring! If it's on Ellis Island, I suppose we'll have to start looking for New Jersey maps in P12 rather than New York maps!

erexere wrote:: I agree 100% that the detail and similarity in image 12 is intended to match Ellis Island.  I think that conclusion goes one of two ways, 1) the casque is buried on Ellis Island, or 2) some kind of clue is represented by Ellis Island and it justifies the final location and/or the method of orientation. I'm thinking Ellis Island as shady as it would seem to dig there. With the solved locations the visual clues were pretty close to the casque site. If the gargoyle is indeed a match, which i think it is, then how in 1982 would we find the gargoyle unless we went to the island to see it. It would be out of the way and redundant if it weren't the correct place to end up anyways. I just can't imagine going all the way there just to get a clue and then saying 'ok cool now lets get back to main land'.

Deuce wrote:: I'm thinking Ellis Island as shady as it would seem to dig there. With the solved locations the visual clues were pretty close to the casque site. If the gargoyle is indeed a match, which i think it is, then how in 1982 would we find the gargoyle unless we went to the island to see it. It would be out of the way and redundant if it weren't the correct place to end up anyways. I just can't imagine going all the way there just to get a clue and then saying 'ok cool now lets get back to main land'. I'm gonna lean more toward #2, but without any need for justification in the final location other than marking a famous point in a city... Chicago and Cleveland matched a building exactly in detail, but the verse did not mention them at all. These exact details were simply a point of confirmation. Perhaps the "door" and the gargoyle are just two pieces giving exact detail of a confirmative location. Do any of the verses implicate digging directions at the island in any way, or is this a clue we only get from the image? I tend to think this is the same with the montreal pic... just because the legeater matches exactly, doesn't lend to any interpretation of the verses as a spot you should be digging at. It's simply a clue of the city given only by the image... the verse makes no mention.

I agree. I just think its strange to go to the island just to get a clue that you're near the correct (other) location. However, the land east of Ellis looks like prime digging area. Not sure how it looked in 82.

What if the water tower in Chicago was part of the concept for how to recognize the final coordinating features that point at the dig spot?  I don't have a visual on hand to say for sure, but I'm strongly theorizing that there was a water feature, a pipe down, that worked to that effect.  A water pipe and a water tower are comparative. What about the Terminal Tower would play a role in the final spot by a monolithic wall with Greek names?  Is it that a wall represents a border between two countries, boundary = terminus or end? So in this case, the Eagle and Lady Liberty may both be the iconics that follow to the final dig spot.  Is it correct to say they represent freedom and independance?  That might work for the Daughters of the American Revolution location or any proximity to an American Flag.

Deuce wrote:: I agree. I just think its strange to go to the island just to get a clue that you're near the correct (other) location. However, the land east of Ellis looks like prime digging area. Not sure how it looked in 82. This is why I mentioned the distances from the iconic buidlings earlier... up to 4.6 miles is already shown. The area east is Liberty State Park.

Deuce wrote:: I agree. I just think its strange to go to the island just to get a clue that you're near the correct (other) location. However, the land east of Ellis looks like prime digging area. Not sure how it looked in 82. This is why I mentioned the distances from the iconic buidlings earlier... up to 4.6 miles is already shown. The area east is Liberty State Park .

I understand. But don't you find it strange to have to go to Ellis just to get a clue? You'll have to book a trip over. And what tells you to go there? I understand the inlet in the image referencing Ellis but why go all the way there to get a clue to somewhere else? That's out of the way and a waste of time only to find the eagle. I don't know. You have the block AND the eagle. Two clues to the same spot tells me that's it. The eagle only or the block only? Ok that would possibly say its NEAR Ellis. But two clues? Come on!

Deuce wrote:: I understand. But don't you find it strange to have to go to Ellis just to get a clue? Yes, that would be very strange. The cask isn't where we want it to be, it's where the clues point.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: The cask isn't where we want it to be, it's where the clues point. More specifically, the verse.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: More specifically, the verse. Agreed and always agreed. Just saying... Why put a major clue in a hard to reach place when all that clue tells you is 'you're close'. It's like putting a clue on top of a mountain that says the site is at the bottom of the mountain.

Does anyone have any idea what Ellis Island was like in the early 80s? It was probably easier to dig there 30 years ago than it is today, just for security reasons.

.

Egbert wrote:: Lastly, take a look at her robes.  The sleeve on the left appears to have a shape that is relevant.  It "pops out" of the picture, and is trying to blend in with the rest of the robe.  I believe we will find that symbol near the treasure. Egbert wrote:: Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native Probably a reference to Alexander Hamilton, a native of the West Indies. I still like Fort Hamilton High School, which ticks both those boxes.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: More specifically, the verse. Absolutely. I've no doubt the eagle is from Ellis, but the images take their clues from a search area of variable size. In NO it includes City Park, Lafayette Square and Armstrong Park. In Image 12 it includes Ellis Island, Bedloe's Island, and Fort Hamilton High.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: More specifically, the verse. Absolutely. I've no doubt the eagle is from Ellis, but the images take their clues from a search area of variable size. In NO it includes City Park , Lafayette Square and Armstrong Park . In Image 12 it includes Ellis Island, Bedloe's Island, and Fort Hamilton High.

Deuce wrote:: Agreed and always agreed. Just saying... Why put a major clue in a hard to reach place when all that clue tells you is 'you're close'. It's like putting a clue on top of a mountain that says the site is at the bottom of the mountain. I was 100% agreeing with you. I was just saying that as a general statement because I know that most people would wish the cask to be buried somewhere other than Ellis Island. We can't will the cask to a new location in spite of the clues just because they point to a rather "inconvenient" place, such as Ellis Island.

cw0909 wrote:: and did we check this church and surroundings Russian Orthodox Cathedral of the Transfiguration of Our Lord 228 Driggs Avenue brooklyn hxxp://www.roct.org/ I just found this church too. The window matches the curved outline and dividers at the top of image 12. I never realised that the dividers are at a slight angle. Another confirmation is that the church is in the location of the carnation flower head if you equate the streets N 12th St and Union Avenue to the exact angle of the stem of the flower.

wk wrote:: I just found this church too. The window matches the curved outline and dividers at the top of image 12. I never realised that the dividers are at a slight angle. Another confirmation is that the church is in the location of the carnation flower head if you equate the streets N 12th St and Union Avenue to the exact angle of the stem of the flower. wow i had the wrong addy, 228 North 12th Street Brooklyn, New York 11211 hxxp://goo.gl/maps/EswQs

Without knowing much of the area in question (boogie...sure would love your input here) I think I am going to have to chime in here. This is the best match so far for our church. Not exact but pretty darn close in my opinion. And right across the street from a heavily treed park with plenty of concealment for burying casques. But first back to the church. -LoTJ for this image:  "A Topaz is the Russian prize: The royal sunstone, frozen fire." That sure fits nicely since we are standing outside of the russian orthodox cathedral of the transfiguration of our lord. - Now let us look at the church itself...more precisely, the northeastern face of the building on 12th St which faces the park. Look at the shape of the large stained glass window. It looks like "conglomeration" of images in P12. It even has the larger rounded top panes on the right and left sides. These areas have been called color blind tests but I think I remember someone suggestion stained glass as well. The top middle sections aren't right though. The left middle of P12 is a maroonish square atop a yellowish square. Look at the church...a maroonish brown roof atop a yellowish church. The right middle rectangle of blue????? No idea. In the center of this large window is an angel whose head is "almost" where our Statue of Liberty head is in P12.  Going to street view in google maps will show this window in much better detail. Now look at the bottom left...the plain grey rectangle. Look at the front of the church. Running down the face of the church on either side of the arched stained glass window are large plain grey rectangles. Here is another view of the window closer up: Interesting side note. It appears that the other large stained glass windows are not broken down with the larger rounded rectangles as is the window facing the park. See here: It even has a bird...not near as good of a match as either Ellis Island or Chrysler building. Now, getting back to the park. Directly across from the church is a small triangular shaped section of the park. It doesn't look like it contains much except for a bush, a large pine tree (perhaps decorated during Christmas) and something that Boogie might like. It was at an item exactly like this, but in a different park, that Boogie and I based our dig location from. There are numerous pictures of McCarren Park where the domes of the Cathedral are visible from also. What I don't like about it is that it seems to be pretty much devoid of statues, plaques, etc... In the section titled "The Passage to the New World", these russian fair folk were called the Vazily, Leshy, Poleviki, Domivye, Vily, and Ruskalki. Looking at the map of their departure, these fair folk came from Poland, Russia, Hungary and Tartary. Now, look at the history of this Russian Orthodox Church. It was founded in 1880 when "The founders of this parish came from Galicia, a crown land of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, located in the southeastern section of today’s Poland, north of the Carpathian Mountains." hxxp://www.roct.org/orthodox-church-history-brooklyn-new-york/ Force fit? Who knows. But these things sure line up. If this isn't the correct church, I truly believe it is these types of things we need to match in P12

Siskel and I were at this church several years ago, trying to find a match for Image 12.  If you look at Image 12, you will see that there are small "bubbles" above each onion dome, so it does not match the silhouette.  Because of that, we did not look more carefully at the church, but that window is incredible.  I really like it.  I think this is the closest match so far.

I think a conglomeration of windows too. Notice that the lower curve is different in the image where it meets the vertical. One is straighter.

img someone took from across street,see the space between the dome on the right looks like the space in img 12....... hxxp://goo.gl/maps/aUEoi looking at area pic was taken from...... hxxp://goo.gl/maps/c6gQ9

Nice finds guys!  McCarren Park intrigues me.  I found these pics of some bronze eagles that just returned to the park this year (they were removed almost 30 years ago).  It's not an exact match, but if you remove the opened lower jaw of the beak in image 12, it's a lot closer.

eagles at fort green too, NY has lots of eagles

Outside is the small public garden called Green Dome Garden. I think this is a picture from inside the garden. Lots of shrubs for hiding in if you look at Google Street view. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/imjustsayin/188139791 hxxp://www.flickr.com/groups/1144900@N22/pool/

Personally, it will be difficult to sway me from the Ferry Building on Ellis Island as the match for the Image 12 bird, particularly when you put it together with the context of the other clues in the image (The outline of the Ellis Island harbor in the lower left pane, et al.)

Merlot Brougham wrote:: The Ferry Building bird... hell, it even has the tongue in image 12, just like the sculpture. +1

Yep, definitely a better match.

I'm in agreement with the intention to match the Ellis Island gargoyle.  Is it fair to assume the reason is only to say thebcasque is to be found on Ellis or could it be a way of informing the hunter of some necessary link to the motives or habits of that particular Fair Folk handling the frozen fire topaz? Is there any meaning to be ascribed to the bird presented in flight versus perched?

maybe we are looking for a flag pole top ornament

Yes, The bird head is exactly as Ellis Island gargoyle. The rectangle in the left bottom window pane of Image 12 is the same shape as the Ellis Island ferry port where boats leave for Liberty Island as show as a dotted line on the Google Map. If you instead of turning right to Liberty Island, but go straight forward in a south east direction, the gulls wings could be indicating "Fly to" and we are back to Prospect Park. There is a "Statue of Liberty" statue in Prospect Park outside the Brooklyn Museum.

Wollman Rink Litchfield Villa, Prospect Park copywrite © Matthew X. Kiernan hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/mateox/459 ... 3125756940 hxxp://www.prospectpark.org/about/histo ... llman-rink if in prospect park hopefully its not where the new pk lot is going hxxp://www.prospectpark.org/lakeside eagle

It is Prospect Park. I tried fitting the outline of the park over the shadows on the body and it matches the clothes. Turn the map of the park so that the Grand Avenue Plaza is at the bottom right or turn the image on its side like this. [URL=hxxp://s1019.photobucket.com/user/cybershotuser/media/prospectoutline.jpg.html]

I like it wk. Concert Grove might be our place.

...and the long sash hanging from her waist is the part of the park called Long Meadow.

There's an East Dr. that goes through the park starting near the entrance. Maybe used for our "east" steps?

Deuce wrote:: There's an East Dr. that goes through the park starting near the entrance. Maybe used for our "east" steps? was just going to ask where to start,as we can Gman walk park, i wondered from CG and ended up under bridge LOL hxxp://goo.gl/maps/UFIKA

?? Is the darker shadow Prospect Park Lake ??

Yes , I agree the lake does match. I was using the drawn map -  yours is better. I had to turn it 15 degrees and stretch it slightly but it is now quite convincing proof. Back to verse 10 now?

wk wrote:: Back to verse 10 now? Absolutely. Trying to work out "him of Hard word".

Another confirmer for Prospect Park. This yellow dotted line follows the light contrast on the dress and indicates a direction from the west entrance to the Lookout Hill. The more I look at this image, the more I am impressed that the artist achieved the task of depicting a map of the park as a work of art. Do you think he knew about this hill?

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Personally, it will be difficult to sway me from the Ferry Building on Ellis Island as the match for the Image 12 bird, particularly when you put it together with the context of the other clues in the image The immigration station on Ellis island was closed in 1954 The museum on Ellis island was not open to the public until 1990. Does that mean the island was off-limits to the public from 1954-1990?  The south side of the island is currently off-limits. In 1970-81 could you even get to ellis island?

maltedfalcon wrote:: The immigration station on Ellis island was closed in 1954 The museum on Ellis island was not open to the public until 1990. Does that mean the island was off-limits to the public from 1954-1990?   The south side of the island is currently off-limits. In 1970-81 could you even get to ellis island? hxxp://nutfieldgenealogy.blogspot.com/2 ... -1975.html

I found no photos from my trip there in the spring of 83, but I remember being there and having lots of restrictions.  It was closed with scaffolds the summer of 86 when I took the Staten Island Ferry close enough to take some pics from around the bay. I think the fact that the bird is so similar to the Ellis bird is a huge step forward.  The natural inclination would be to think the casque is very close to where that detailed visual is found, but everything about burying something on Ellis seems wrong, which poses a new question: why use THOSE eagles? I suspect there's an intrinsic connection to be found that has to do with the whole process of being a tourist, buying a ferry ticket, and visiting a historic monument.  The Ellis Island Ferry may have been Preiss' closest to home template to build that particular portion of his visual puzzle for the purpose of inference.

i always thought the National Park Service, operated liberty and ellis found this, now NPS works with The Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation (SOLEIF) In 1982, President Ronald Reagan asked Lee Iacocca,to head a private sector effort to raise funds for the restoration and preservation of the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island July 4th weekend, 1986, saw a gala three-day event celebrating the restoration. When the Island opened in September of 1990--two years ahead of schedule hxxp://www.ellisisland.org/EIinfo/about.asp

erexere wrote:: I think the fact that the bird is so similar to the Ellis bird is a huge step forward.  The natural inclination would be to think the casque is very close to where that detailed visual is found, but everything about burying something on Ellis seems wrong, which poses a new question: why use THOSE eagles? I suspect there's an intrinsic connection to be found that has to do with the whole process of being a tourist, buying a ferry ticket, and visiting a historic monument.  The Ellis Island Ferry may have been Preiss' closest to home template to build that particular portion of his visual puzzle for the purpose of inference. Holy… crap. I agree with everything you just said. The eagle is definitely a match. It's possible that it's meant just to be a marker for NYC, which I think is okay in this case, since the book is so heavily themed with immigration.

bigmattyh wrote:: Holy… crap. I agree with everything you just said. The eagle is definitely a match. It's possible that it's meant just to be a marker for NYC, which I think is okay in this case, since the book is so heavily themed with immigration. Wouldn't it be more likely that the fairy's resemblance to Lady Liberty is the marker for NYC and the bird is a specific match to a known sculpture at a distinct location that is backed up by another clue in the image (the red outline of the Ellis Island harbor)? The "red herring" here, I think, when considering the known depths of Preiss' trickery, would be that you'd make the NYC connection with Lady Liberty and think the rectangle is the profile of one of the twin towers.  It's not until you dig deeper and connect the red outline to Ellis Island, and then confirm with the bird sculpture once you're there.

I see that twin tower analogue.  If that's the intent, maybe it's a hint about twin things, though I doubt you'd like my suggestion that it applies to the other Lady Liberty statue near Alki Beach in Washington: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/ankneyd/1392806866/ . I have an afterthought using Verse 9, similar to Ponce's first landing in St. Augustine, Alki Beach has a memorial to the first landing of the "white man", the Birthplace of Seattle monument.

I would tend to agree with Merlot on this.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the eagle on Ellis Island is at an old building which is no longer in use, and you actually have to walk pretty far from where you land on the ferry, to see it.  It is not one of the eagles on the main building, since I did not see the correct eagle when I got off the ferry on Ellis Island. In other words, if the correct eagle is on an obscure building, far from where the ferry lands, then that would not just simply be a NYC "confirmer."  Rather, it is more of something that you would see when you are near the treasure spot.  A city "confirmer" would be the Cleveland terminal tower or the Chicago water tower, or the Statue of Liberty.  Not the eagle over there in the corner on that abandoned building that nobody knows about.

I found an apple...

Egbert wrote:: I would tend to agree with Merlot on this.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the eagle on Ellis Island is at an old building which is no longer in use, and you actually have to walk pretty far from where you land on the ferry, to see it.  It is not one of the eagles on the main building, since I did not see the correct eagle when I got off the ferry on Ellis Island. In other words, if the correct eagle is on an obscure building, far from where the ferry lands, then that would not just simply be a NYC "confirmer."  Rather, it is more of something that you would see when you are near the treasure spot.  A city "confirmer" would be the Cleveland terminal tower or the Chicago water tower, or the Statue of Liberty.  Not the eagle over there in the corner on that abandoned building that nobody knows about. The birds are on the Ferry Building. Here's a video with a little history about that particular building and some relevant dates.

wk wrote:: It is Prospect Park . I tried fitting the outline of the park over the shadows on the body and it matches the clothes. {img} I can't really see the park in the shadows on her dress, and your outline seems to be taking quite a few liberties as a match; but, your thoughts made me look at the shadows in the picture again. Perhaps we are looking in the shadows to find the coordinates. I'd say that's a 75 in her dress, and her hands look as though they could be signing 4 and an 0. I do like Prospect Park , and there are definitely interesting ways to apply different parts of V10 (e.g., the Moore bust, rhapsodic soil, ocean ave, east dr, etc.). There is one spot I like a lot, near the east wood arch: hxxp://goo.gl/maps/kBekL

wk wrote:: It is Prospect Park. I tried fitting the outline of the park over the shadows on the body and it matches the clothes. {img} I can't really see the park in the shadows on her dress, and your outline seems to be taking quite a few liberties as a match; but, your thoughts made me look at the shadows in the picture again. Perhaps we are looking in the shadows to find the coordinates. I'd say that's a 75 in her dress, and her hands look as though they could be signing 4 and an 0. I do like Prospect Park, and there are definitely interesting ways to apply different parts of V10 (e.g., the Moore bust, rhapsodic soil, ocean ave, east dr, etc.). There is one spot I like a lot, near the east wood arch: hxxp://goo.gl/maps/kBekL

Your darker photo on the right makes it even more obvious. Anyway, there are also other confirmations like the Long Meadow and the lake.

I had a few new ideas lately that I'd like to share. I found the Little Red Lighthouse at the base of the GW Bridge, which had been mentioned here some years ago. It certainly fits the first two lines of V10. Then, if you follow Riverside Dr. south 3.0 miles ( hxxp://goo.gl/maps/L7ZC9 ), you will run into a segment of land that EXACTLY matches the fold coming down from the lady's belt: Then if you look immediately to the east, you will see two eagles that, from the side, look like this (matching all but the tongue from up close): When viewing the eagles from the west side of the monument (which was massively run down in the 70's/80's - hxxp://www.grantstomb.org/tdr2.html ) looking east, you would be looking over the cracked ceramic/ceramic bench murals by Antoni Gaudí. There are 22 steps leading from the west side of the tomb to the east side (18 on the west side, 4 on the east side), leading over to Sakura Park . I realize this leaves a lot unexplained, but I thought it was quite interesting.

I had a few new ideas lately that I'd like to share. I found the Little Red Lighthouse at the base of the GW Bridge, which had been mentioned here some years ago. It certainly fits the first two lines of V10. Then, if you follow Riverside Dr. south 3.0 miles ( hxxp://goo.gl/maps/L7ZC9 ), you will run into a segment of land that EXACTLY matches the fold coming down from the lady's belt: Then if you look immediately to the east, you will see two eagles that, from the side, look like this (matching all but the tongue from up close): When viewing the eagles from the west side of the monument (which was massively run down in the 70's/80's - hxxp://www.grantstomb.org/tdr2.html ) looking east, you would be looking over the cracked ceramic/ceramic bench murals by Antoni Gaudí. There are 22 steps leading from the west side of the tomb to the east side (18 on the west side, 4 on the east side), leading over to Sakura Park. I realize this leaves a lot unexplained, but I thought it was quite interesting.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: When viewing the eagles from the west side of the monument (which was massively run down in the 70's/80's - hxxp://www.grantstomb.org/tdr2.html ) looking east, you would be looking over the cracked ceramic/ceramic bench murals by Antoni Gaudí. {img} "Four hundred feet of undulating free-form cement benches... A third of the benches honor the life and interests of Ulysses Grant. Others are known as the Ice, Medieval, Native American , Spanish, Caribbean , and New York City benches."

I posted this before, only I rotated and cropped it differently.  What I like about this is it fits with the view of the Rock and the roof which matches the dark shaded portion on her other elbow area.  Given there's practically nothing else of note this area of the San Juan Island landscape, this is what I prefer to call a significant observation.  It's like looking at the horizon and seeing one notable iconic building in the distance.

wk wrote:: Another confirmer for Prospect Park. This yellow dotted line follows the light contrast on the dress and indicates a direction from the west entrance to the Lookout Hill. The more I look at this image, the more I am impressed that the artist achieved the task of depicting a map of the park as a work of art. Do you think he knew about this hill? Where the yellow dotted line meets the red outline of the park in the middle of the waist belt is the entrance to the park.

wk wrote:: Another confirmer for Prospect Park . This yellow dotted line follows the light contrast on the dress and indicates a direction from the west entrance to the Lookout Hill. The more I look at this image, the more I am impressed that the artist achieved the task of depicting a map of the park as a work of art. Do you think he knew about this hill? Where the yellow dotted line meets the red outline of the park in the middle of the waist belt is the entrance to the park .

This is what I'm thinking. Osprey.

AP once pointed out the Hamilton Fish Center as an Indies Native sign. The windows have a similar pattern of divisions to the image. That could even be a "weird rectangular blob" motif in the brickwork. Maybe it would be worth a map / recap of NY Russian Orthodox churches in case it's a guide to the general area. Love the colour of this one in Queens. hxxp://notnewyork.net/2011/08/16/russia ... in-queens/

erexere wrote:: This is what I'm thinking. Osprey. Our bird's head has been found in a couple of locations. The bird's body is obviously that of a sea bird by looking at its wings and feet. An osprey is far from being a sea bird. Finding an image of an osprey in a similar position as our bird is meaningless. If we had enough time and patience we could find any bird in the same position. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it.

fox, you raise a fine point about the generic quality of the bird. I wonder if theres some form of rebus going on. I noticed some words that almost seemed to identify with eachother though not truly related: skua and squaw. Very curious, though you may argue that this isnt a seabird...and you may argue that this couldnt posibly be an indian woman floating above the sea.

erexere wrote:: fox, you raise a fine point about the generic quality of the bird. .and you may argue that this couldnt posibly be an indian woman floating above the sea. That's correct, there is nothing about the woman at all that indicates Native American. The dress is European The face is un-arguably french. Please point to anything that says "Indian"

I'd be happy to, but first let me reread the Vanishing. I think it's worth mentioning the Fair Folk pespective, their peaceful coexistence with the natives and their decision to Secret away their gems and casques as they witnessed the coming colonization of civilized man. I suppose my approach to these puzzles has more and more gravitated to this perspective and the fact that this image portrays a female person regardless of her origin, it may be a Fair Folk's perspective to generalize a woman as a squaw. They adapted themselves...the field guide shows that...i wonder if the idea behind each location is to show how each site that was chosen long long ago also adapted by their invisible influence. The choice to build the Greek Gardens may have been inspired by the Nymphs presence in Cleveland, ect.

For those interested, a synopsis of my recent trip to New York with James Renner: Met up with James and his film crew AND Byron's two daughters. Lovely girls and they were THRILLED to be part of the search. Was so interesting to see it through their eyes. Showed them all the Roman Orthodox Church in Brooklyn across from McCarren Park and got some ooohs and ahhs. Went next to Prospect Park , after first stopping at the house where Byron was born (near the park !!). After traveling from one end to the other and ending in Concert Grove (aka Rhapsodic Man's soil) I can confidently say that the treasure is NOT buried there. The girls were excited at the "prospect" (excuse the pun) and felt confident their dad would have buried a casque in the borough of his birth. And there were even some high hopes - like when we were looking at a map in the park and saw a refernce to a small man made island just north of Concert Grove called Musical Bear Island (The Isle of B???). And then when we found a large gazeebo that looked like it might have housed a carousel (cars abound) many years back and, after jumping over the do not enter fences to do a more thorough investigation, we saw not only the same color scheme in the inside roof (pale yellow, maroon and blue) but more amazing, there is a stain glass panel at the very center that even had some small circlular baubles in different spots that sort of resembled the color blind panels, albeit in small doses. After some initial goosebumps, we traversed that Concert Grove area looking for a V and walked 22 steps "or Moore" (towards the bust of composer Moore) in an area near busts of Mozart and Beethoven, both of whom have been referenced in previous prose, hoping we might find a suitable spot for digging. But alas, we all came to the conclusion that there is simply no way that the casque is buried in Prospect Park . And that was after exploring the large arch (grey giant?) adjacent to the Brooklyn Public Library (that was adorned with gold images including an indian and Moby Dick -- Melville, him of Hard Words?). Bottom line is that this entire location seemed like a stretch at best and there was NEVER that "A-Ha" moment that I experienced so clearly in Cleveland when Egbert and I discovered the treasure in the Greek Cultural Gardens 10 years ago. From there we headed to Downtown Manhattan and explored the Battery Park area. Lots of clues to match up to the prose - the fact that the Fraunces Tavern sign mentions the West Indies native being a block from Mellvile's birth plaque ("A man thinks that by mouthing Hard Words he understands hard things") and standing at the very end of Broadway and looking north up that long "aisle"/isle of B (Broadway) the only structure visible in the distance is CLEARLY the Chrysler building, perfectly framed by the aisle of B itself (that dreaded Eagle gargoyle?) Whirring sounds from the nearby Staten Island Ferry and the nearby helliport, and clear sight lines for both Lady Liberty and Ellis Island (though not the docking area that appears to be referenced outlined in red in the illustration) and also some nice sculptures above the Battery Tunnel that show both the archway for the Verrazano Bridge and (in a separate panel) Peter Minuet buying Manhattan from the Indians (for the glass baubles?) Still, despite some better clues all around, the Battery Park area just did not feel right. Too spread out with no one place that seemed right. We did NOT get to explore the area at the base of the Verrezano (JPJ Park and Ft. Hamilton) which remains a popular theory for some. We also did not get to visit Roosevelt Island, a theory that I feel is quite valid (formerly Blackwell's Island and if standing at the Southern tip in the park area, you can gaze north to the Isle of B (Blackwell). From there, you can hear the whirring sound of the overhead Roosevelt Island Tramcar, opened in the late 1970s and according to his daughters, they lived right there, and their dad loved taking them on that tramcar to Roosevelt Island. It also stands in the shadow of a Grey Giant (the UN Building that looks like the grey monlith in the image) and has a remarkable view of the Chrylser building (the eagle). But I digress ... So, after traversing a LOT of ground and re-exploring some old theories with some new friends, the consensus is that while Byron MUST have buried a casque in his hometown area of Brooklyn or lower Manhattan, it is NOT at Prospect Park and probably not at Battery Park . Again, JPJ Park remains in the hunt, assuming the prose can really be tied in, and Roosevelt island (where Dickens visited -- him of Hard [Times] Words in Three original Vols. -- to write about the Lunatic Assylum there) remains a personal theory of some value, Image 12 and NY as a whole remains one heck of a mystery. When comparing Cleveland to Chicago, both images contained specific images that could be seen at the site location and the prose contained specific words or imagery that could also be seen at the exact spot, giving you the X marks the spot undeniable feeling. Unfortunately, that feeling did not exist at any of the locals we had a chance to visit, leaving us to feel more like we were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The search, and the documentary, continues ...

For those interested, a synopsis of my recent trip to New York with James Renner: Met up with James and his film crew AND Byron's two daughters. Lovely girls and they were THRILLED to be part of the search. Was so interesting to see it through their eyes. Showed them all the Roman Orthodox Church in Brooklyn across from McCarren Park and got some ooohs and ahhs. Went next to Prospect Park, after first stopping at the house where Byron was born (near the park!!). After traveling from one end to the other and ending in Concert Grove (aka Rhapsodic Man's soil) I can confidently say that the treasure is NOT buried there. The girls were excited at the "prospect" (excuse the pun) and felt confident their dad would have buried a casque in the borough of his birth. And there were even some high hopes - like when we were looking at a map in the park and saw a refernce to a small man made island just north of Concert Grove called Musical Bear Island (The Isle of B???). And then when we found a large gazeebo that looked like it might have housed a carousel (cars abound) many years back and, after jumping over the do not enter fences to do a more thorough investigation, we saw not only the same color scheme in the inside roof (pale yellow, maroon and blue) but more amazing, there is a stain glass panel at the very center that even had some small circlular baubles in different spots that sort of resembled the color blind panels, albeit in small doses. After some initial goosebumps, we traversed that Concert Grove area looking for a V and walked 22 steps "or Moore" (towards the bust of composer Moore) in an area near busts of Mozart and Beethoven, both of whom have been referenced in previous prose, hoping we might find a suitable spot for digging. But alas, we all came to the conclusion that there is simply no way that the casque is buried in Prospect Park. And that was after exploring the large arch (grey giant?) adjacent to the Brooklyn Public Library (that was adorned with gold images including an indian and Moby Dick -- Melville, him of Hard Words?). Bottom line is that this entire location seemed like a stretch at best and there was NEVER that "A-Ha" moment that I experienced so clearly in Cleveland when Egbert and I discovered the treasure in the Greek Cultural Gardens 10 years ago. From there we headed to Downtown Manhattan and explored the Battery Park area. Lots of clues to match up to the prose - the fact that the Fraunces Tavern sign mentions the West Indies native being a block from Mellvile's birth plaque ("A man thinks that by mouthing Hard Words he understands hard things") and standing at the very end of Broadway and looking north up that long "aisle"/isle of B (Broadway) the only structure visible in the distance is CLEARLY the Chrysler building, perfectly framed by the aisle of B itself (that dreaded Eagle gargoyle?) Whirring sounds from the nearby Staten Island Ferry and the nearby helliport, and clear sight lines for both Lady Liberty and Ellis Island (though not the docking area that appears to be referenced outlined in red in the illustration) and also some nice sculptures above the Battery Tunnel that show both the archway for the Verrazano Bridge and (in a separate panel) Peter Minuet buying Manhattan from the Indians (for the glass baubles?) Still, despite some better clues all around, the Battery Park area just did not feel right. Too spread out with no one place that seemed right. We did NOT get to explore the area at the base of the Verrezano (JPJ Park and Ft. Hamilton) which remains a popular theory for some. We also did not get to visit Roosevelt Island, a theory that I feel is quite valid (formerly Blackwell's Island and if standing at the Southern tip in the park area, you can gaze north to the Isle of B (Blackwell). From there, you can hear the whirring sound of the overhead Roosevelt Island Tramcar, opened in the late 1970s and according to his daughters, they lived right there, and their dad loved taking them on that tramcar to Roosevelt Island. It also stands in the shadow of a Grey Giant (the UN Building that looks like the grey monlith in the image) and has a remarkable view of the Chrylser building (the eagle). But I digress ... So, after traversing a LOT of ground and re-exploring some old theories with some new friends, the consensus is that while Byron MUST have buried a casque in his hometown area of Brooklyn or lower Manhattan, it is NOT at Prospect Park and probably not at Battery Park. Again, JPJ Park remains in the hunt, assuming the prose can really be tied in, and Roosevelt island (where Dickens visited -- him of Hard [Times] Words in Three original Vols. -- to write about the Lunatic Assylum there) remains a personal theory of some value, Image 12 and NY as a whole remains one heck of a mystery. When comparing Cleveland to Chicago, both images contained specific images that could be seen at the site location and the prose contained specific words or imagery that could also be seen at the exact spot, giving you the X marks the spot undeniable feeling. Unfortunately, that feeling did not exist at any of the locals we had a chance to visit, leaving us to feel more like we were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The search, and the documentary, continues ...

Can't come to terms with Prospect Park NOT being the place after someone found it in the dress. 'B'elmont Island is directly north of Concert Grove to the inch. Gazing north you're looking towards Belmont. Nothing says you have to actually see the isle. Just look north and it's in that direction. Like an x marks the spot.

Can't come to terms with Prospect Park NOT being the place after someone found it in the dress. 'B'elmont Island is directly north of Concert Grove to the inch. Gazing north you're looking towards Belmont. Nothing says you have to actually see the isle. Just look north and it's in that direction. Like an x marks the spot.

Respectfully, finding Prospect Park in the dress/robes was a total stretch at best IMHO. As sure as I was that the casque was buried in the Greek Cultural Garden in Cleveland is as sure that I am it is NOT buried in Prospect Park . Look North to Belmont Island may seem to fit the clue, but it is WAY to obscure, random and non-specific when compared to the clues and methodology found in both the Cleveland and Chicago images/verses. Posted some more info on our search in NY under Verse 10, for anyone interested.

Respectfully, finding Prospect Park in the dress/robes was a total stretch at best IMHO. As sure as I was that the casque was buried in the Greek Cultural Garden in Cleveland is as sure that I am it is NOT buried in Prospect Park. Look North to Belmont Island may seem to fit the clue, but it is WAY to obscure, random and non-specific when compared to the clues and methodology found in both the Cleveland and Chicago images/verses. Posted some more info on our search in NY under Verse 10, for anyone interested.

This has probably been pointed out before, but maybe the image represents a depiction of Mary in one of these NY Russian churches or somewhere. Not this one, but something along these lines. Eg, this is in Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn. It's a common pose. I think this kind of thing must have been one of JJP's artistic influences for the pic.

Ironically I''m just starting to get into Prospect Park since Siskel mentioned it. That statue isn't far, Gershwin lived nearby at one time, eagles all over the place...perhaps the sign about the Indies native was at the zoo, which seems to have species native to the West Indies...

Ironically I''m just starting to get into Prospect Park since Siskel mentioned it. That statue isn't far, Gershwin lived nearby at one time, eagles all over the place...perhaps the sign about the Indies native was at the zoo, which seems to have species native to the West Indies...

Yes!!! Keep the Prospect Park idea alive. Siskel, I value your opinion. I've been adventuring down new avenues since your NY visit. I'm keeping Prospect on the back burner though. I agree that there isn't much going on there as far as visual clues. How confident are we that Central Park isn't a possible site? A lot of ideas I find point there but I dismiss them because of the email saying it's not there. I've been working on the letters in the image to try and figure something out. Got a few ideas. I'll post if I find something.

Yes!!! Keep the Prospect Park idea alive. Siskel, I value your opinion. I've been adventuring down new avenues since your NY visit. I'm keeping Prospect on the back burner though. I agree that there isn't much going on there as far as visual clues. How confident are we that Central Park isn't a possible site? A lot of ideas I find point there but I dismiss them because of the email saying it's not there. I've been working on the letters in the image to try and figure something out. Got a few ideas. I'll post if I find something.

Image 12 = Verse 6 = USS Maine Memorial at Merchant's gate. I identified 4 more visual clues in the picture and I am absolutely certain. My cousin is going to dig for me once she applies to the New York Parks department for the appropriate "Research Permit" to dig and "Metal Detector Permit" for the ground penetrating radar I will hire, and "Film and Photography Permit" so she can film it for the documentary. I'll fill you all in once the casque is out of the ground.

I will admit it has been a LONG time since I have considered any other verse in connection with Image 12. Maybe its just because it is so exhausting to think about going back and retracing steps and heading in an entirely different direction. And I remember years ago the email from BP saying "nothing was buried in Central Park" and I am paraphrasing here as I wish I could go back and read that actual email response again. Looking at your enthusiasm and confidence, I took a quick look and admittedly I DID get chills when I learned that the USS Maine Marine Monument was dedicated MAY 1913 (May 30th to be exact). Is it possible that Verse 6 works with Image 12?? And could the casque be buried just OUTSIDE of Central Park?? The woman rising over the water in image 12 does have at least a cursory resemblance at first glance to that bronze woman riding her sea shell being pulled by those three horses. After all the dead ends on this, I suppose anything is possible. And I sort of love that May 1913 reference. First time in a while the hair on the back of my next stood up and I got goosebumps. If your cousin is in NY and wants a partner to help, I would be more than happy to listen to your theories and assist anyway I can. Living so close to NYC, it would be easy to come in, and having found a casque previously, I bring a different perspective once standing in the right place.

I will admit it has been a LONG time since I have considered any other verse in connection with Image 12. Maybe its just because it is so exhausting to think about going back and retracing steps and heading in an entirely different direction. And I remember years ago the email from BP saying "nothing was buried in Central Park " and I am paraphrasing here as I wish I could go back and read that actual email response again. Looking at your enthusiasm and confidence, I took a quick look and admittedly I DID get chills when I learned that the USS Maine Marine Monument was dedicated MAY 1913 (May 30th to be exact). Is it possible that Verse 6 works with Image 12?? And could the casque be buried just OUTSIDE of Central Park ?? The woman rising over the water in image 12 does have at least a cursory resemblance at first glance to that bronze woman riding her sea shell being pulled by those three horses. After all the dead ends on this, I suppose anything is possible. And I sort of love that May 1913 reference. First time in a while the hair on the back of my next stood up and I got goosebumps. If your cousin is in NY and wants a partner to help, I would be more than happy to listen to your theories and assist anyway I can. Living so close to NYC, it would be easy to come in, and having found a casque previously, I bring a different perspective once standing in the right place.

My cousin will be going to the site tomorrow for recognizance. She will text me some iPhone images. I have seen several visual confirmers on Google Maps, but their images are copyrighted. I have given her specific instructions of what I want photographed, and will post some of the images once I have my own pictures. It is one (or really 3) of those things that will give you chills, like "Of course! How could I have been so blind to miss it until now?" As a teaser, I will give you the 4th clue: On the Secret wiki, Sonoran claims that the bottom of the flying woman's robes look like the coast of southern Manhattan. Google map Manhattan and it just is not true. Now google map Maine and tell me we are not looking at the northern and eastern border, rotated 180 degrees clockwise.

DocZ, You have my attention but I respectfully do not see Maine at any angle. Regardless, your certainty intrigues me and I am hoping there is more to go on. Looking forward to your future image postings.

You see no similarity to the bottom left of her dress and an inverted Maine? Well I just tried to upload an image - but I got an error that the board has reached its attachment limit. I made the image my Avatar, so you can see what I am talking about, but it had to be scaled to 95 pixels on a side and a file size of 6 MB or less. You can try to see it, but it is less clear when scaled down. This does not bode well for all the visual clues I was going to add when my cousin sent them tomorrow. Any Mods out there who can free up some memory?

Hey. Doc. Lookin' forward to your posts later regardless what you find! Yeah... the message attachment way of embedding a pic in a post doesn't seem to work. You'll need to use a third-party image hosting service and then link to the images. For instance, upload your images to MediaFire (free .com website). Once uploaded, grab the image URL and paste it in the text of your post. Be sure to put the [URL] tags around the link, though - both open and close! You can do that easily by highlighting only the link and then clicking the "URL" button in the formatting buttons during post edit. Best of luck!

Here is a test to see if Mediafire works: https://www.mediafire.com/?6kk7pl93m2n3tbg Edited to add: Annoying, but workable.

O.K. Everyone! Here is my solution, along with proof that both Verse #6 and Image #12 are linked and represent New York City. My final answer is that the clues lead to the sandy area to the east of the U.S.S. Maine Memorial at Merchant’s Gate, which is the southwest entrance to Central Park in New York City, just off of Columbus Circle (which is at the intersection of Broadway, 8th Avenue, and 59th street). Let’s start at the beginning. I am fairly new to the quest. I was introduced to The Secret when a Facebook friend linked to the Boing Boing article about James Renner and his documentary about The Secret. It piqued my interest and brought me to The Secret Wiki, a page containing partial solutions. I want to emphasize that when I started, I was looking at information online and did not have a copy of the book. However, because I became interested, I have purchased a copy of the book, and I am now fully invested in this quest. On the Secret Wiki front page is a list of the images and a “Status Grid” with partial solutions which may or may not be correct. Image 12 was suggested to correspond to New York City. As I used to live in New York and have some familiarity with it, but no familiarity with any of the other cities suggested as a solution, I started there to see if I agreed that Image #12 really represented New York. I do. These are the reasons Image #12 represents New York: A) The Square Shaped Clock indicates Times Square. B) The face on the woman looks like the Statue of Liberty’s face. C) The coordinate 74 (clearly) and 41 (probably, but less clear) are located in the waves. It just so happens that the coordinates of the final location that I will lead you to in New York are  40.768326, -73.980871. In hindsight, those are the only clues which are generic to New York and are not specific to the treasure location. The following Link should take you to Mediafire. I have posted a picture of Image #12 with red letters positioned on the picture, corresponding to the clues I mention both here and later in the discussion. https://www.mediafire.com/?6kk7pl93m2n3tbg There are also some clues specific to which one of the treasures goes with the image, but these clues are of no help with the location process. D) A Blue Topaz is pictured below the woman. E) The time on the clock is 11:00. Eleven represents November. Topaz is November’s Birthstone. F) The flower in her hand is Chrysanthemum, which is the birth flower for November. G) The Church depicted is NOT in New York. It is the Church of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, situated on the banks of the Neva River in St. Petersburg, Russia. On page 21 of The Secret, in the Litany of the Jewels, the book states, “A Topaz is the Russian prize: The royal sunstone, frozen fire.” The church is a Russian Church to indicate the Russian prize. It is blue like a Topaz to indicate the jewel. Again, this is a clue about the treasure itself, not its location. Here is a picture of the church: hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/veidj3vcj5uev3d/Assumption.jpg On the Secret Wiki Status Grid and on the Image #12 page, there is discordant information about the appropriate verse. The Status grid claims that Verse #10 is correct. On the Image #12 page, Sonoran claims that Verse #6 is correct, but thinks it refers to the Alexander Holley Monument in Washington Square park. I had to figure out which was the true verse and location on my own. The correct verse is Verse #6, but Sonoran is wrong about the location. To review what I posted previously, so that the entire solution is consolidated into one place (with some updates/editing) here is the solution to Verse #6: Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here Refers to Broadway Musicals in New York City. Start on Broadway. A note about how I interpret Byron Preiss clues. Some of his clues are quotes from literature. They imply a feature we are supposed to figure out, but are not intended to be used as a direct quote or to purely be true to the source material. For example, a quote from Treasure Island does not mean we have to be on an Island (although Manhattan is an island) or that we have to be dealing with pirates. Romance, tales, and tunes can mean Broadway shows. By eyes of old I’ll get back to this one. It becomes clear later in the verse. Stand and listen to the birds Lots of pigeons on statues in New York. Indicates we are looking for a public park with a monument/statue. There is a monument in the center of Columbus Circle, where Broadway intersects 8th Avenue and 59th Street. (That is not the correct place. But it is on the way, so lets go there first to work it out and see if the solution becomes more obvious.) Hear the cool, clear song of water. Oops, no fountain at the monument on Columbus Circle. But what is that right across the street at the southwest entrance to Central Park? A monument with fountains on it? Yes! Let’s cross the street and look at the U.S.S. Maine National Monument. Here is a picture: hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/aeq1dr69h8kjg2m/IMG_2421.jpg Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century To be honest, I don’t know what "Freedom at the birth of a century" means. But even without this clue, the subsequent clues prove me right. Or May 1913 The U.S.S. Maine National Monument was dedicated May 30, 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him This is a quote from the book “Abroad in America” about someone named Edward Blyden. Again, I believe Byron Preiss used literary references to imply things - that we are talking about someone named Edward. I do not think he intended to require that the source material must be used literally to fulfill the clue. (For example a quote from Herman Melville was meant to lead to Hermann Park in Houston, not necessarily leading to whatever the exact words of the quote were about.) Instead, this quote about someone named Edward refers to the building at 2 Columbus Circle designed by the famous architect EDWARD Durrell Stone. We are in the right place. Or on the eighth a scene Where are we again? The intersection of Broadway, with EIGHTH Avenue and 59th Street. We are still in the right place. Now I will explain “By eyes of old”: One side of the USS Maine National Monument has a young figure representing the Pacific Ocean (discovered later), hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/5xaaz6s9dnqd7od/IMG_2430.jpg the other side has an old figure, representing the Atlantic Ocean (known to European explorers first). hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/wifm5sdg3990svc/Atlantic.jpg The verse is indicating to go toward the side of the monument with the older figure. Where law defended Between two arms extended Now here is where it gets tricky. There are actually 3 figures on this monument who have two arms extended. In the front are a young boy named Victory hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/witufrfoa7peku2/IMG_2420.jpg and a woman named Courage. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/4jz3o8pvgdmphfo/IMG_2419.jpg In the back is a woman named Justice. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/usszgd5z3lj4y9q/IMG_2431.jpg Justice is more likely to be a defender of law. Also, old Atlantic Ocean is looking backwards at Justice, not forwards towards Victory and Courage. So Justice is seen here by eyes of old. Below the bar that binds A literary way of saying a sand bar binding a ship. The front of the Monument is sculpted into the prow of a ship. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/aeq1dr69h8kjg2m/IMG_2421.jpg At the rear of the monument is a sandy area. This could almost be considered to look like a ship caught on a sand bar. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/lo2e3sd9kjx3wj2/IMG_2423.jpg Beside the long palm's shadow There is a plaque is on the monument between the old Atlantic Ocean figure and the rear-facing Justice. Several copies of this plaque were stamped out and affixed to several USS Maine memorials across the country. There is a long palm frond on the plaque. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/yglbdolz53p8iqp/IMG_2435.jpg Alternate Solution: Justice has her right hand partially clenched and her left hand more open.  Her left/our right is the long palm.   That is the side closer to the old Atlantic Ocean figure, and to the plaque too.  So it all fits. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/7zubwpw612mot8n/Justice.jpg Either way, we want to know what is below that plaque. What about the figures with outstretched arms in front? Victory has both hands clenched.  Courage has both hands open.  The phrase long palm does not distinguish which side to dig on, if you are looking at the front figures. Embedded in the sand Again, there is a sandy area at the rear of the monument instead of having the marble sidewalks go all the way around. This is where to dig. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/zxrs2w8z07nh0u6/IMG_2440.jpg and hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/xqp3er4o938v62t/IMG_2441.jpg Waits the Fair remuneration Here is where the prize is. Dig in the sand under the plaque in between Justice and the Atlantic Ocean. White house close at hand. A distractor to make you think of Washington DC. The building 262 Central Park West is also known as the White House. We are at the southwest corner of Central Park, not too far from the building. But now that we are at that location, I promised you some additional visual confirmation. So here are the additional clues. H) The bottom of the dress of the woman in the painting is in the shape of the northern and eastern borders of Maine, if Maine were rotated upside down. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/10o0mc8nzo55clz/MaineDress.jpg I) Look closely at the prow of the ship just below Victory. Our friendly eagle is NOT a generic New York clue from the Chrysler Building, but a specific confirmation that I am correct. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/5n6xgw4wmida2y3/IMG_2432.jpg J) The same goes for the rectangle to the left of the Russian Church. There are 4 of these pylons located on the site. That is NOT a world trade center, as some have suggested. It IS a feature of the U.S.S. Maine memorial. 2 of the pylons have doors that are green with age. 2 are still black hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/mg8emdutklmt3rc/IMG_2425.jpg K) It is a little hard to see because my photos are taken from below Justice, who has her arms up. Instead, the painting has her arms down so you see the hands from the front. But the finger positioning on the “two arms extended” of Justice matches the finger positioning in the painting. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/6vohng2ohgds77w/IMG_2439-2.jpg L) I also think the head of one of the horses from the top of the monument can be seen in the waves. This is not as clear-cut as the other clues. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/zztpc6e6w18bbga/Horses.jpg M) I know Byron Preiss said that only the Pictures and Verses mattered. I know that the rest of the book is not *supposed* to contain clues. But could Page 67 of The Secret make it any more clear about the fact that Mr. Preiss found this location to be interesting and spent some time here when planning the book? hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/lzmk84rvcsov8o9/IMG_2415.jpg I rest my case. P.S. I noticed page 67 after I got my copy of the book, which was AFTER I had already decided that this was the location. But it was a nice confirmatory element.

O.K. Everyone! Here is my solution, along with proof that both Verse #6 and Image #12 are linked and represent New York City. My final answer is that the clues lead to the sandy area to the east of the U.S.S. Maine Memorial at Merchant’s Gate, which is the southwest entrance to Central Park in New York City, just off of Columbus Circle (which is at the intersection of Broadway, 8th Avenue, and 59th street). Let’s start at the beginning. I am fairly new to the quest. I was introduced to The Secret when a Facebook friend linked to the Boing Boing article about James Renner and his documentary about The Secret. It piqued my interest and brought me to The Secret Wiki, a page containing partial solutions. I want to emphasize that when I started, I was looking at information online and did not have a copy of the book. However, because I became interested, I have purchased a copy of the book, and I am now fully invested in this quest. On the Secret Wiki front page is a list of the images and a “Status Grid” with partial solutions which may or may not be correct. Image 12 was suggested to correspond to New York City. As I used to live in New York and have some familiarity with it, but no familiarity with any of the other cities suggested as a solution, I started there to see if I agreed that Image #12 really represented New York. I do. These are the reasons Image #12 represents New York: A) The Square Shaped Clock indicates Times Square. B) The face on the woman looks like the Statue of Liberty’s face. C) The coordinate 74 (clearly) and 41 (probably, but less clear) are located in the waves. It just so happens that the coordinates of the final location that I will lead you to in New York are  40.768326, -73.980871. In hindsight, those are the only clues which are generic to New York and are not specific to the treasure location. The following Link should take you to Mediafire. I have posted a picture of Image #12 with red letters positioned on the picture, corresponding to the clues I mention both here and later in the discussion. https://www.mediafire.com/?6kk7pl93m2n3tbg There are also some clues specific to which one of the treasures goes with the image, but these clues are of no help with the location process. D) A Blue Topaz is pictured below the woman. E) The time on the clock is 11:00. Eleven represents November. Topaz is November’s Birthstone. F) The flower in her hand is Chrysanthemum, which is the birth flower for November. G) The Church depicted is NOT in New York. It is the Church of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, situated on the banks of the Neva River in St. Petersburg, Russia. On page 21 of The Secret, in the Litany of the Jewels, the book states, “A Topaz is the Russian prize: The royal sunstone, frozen fire.” The church is a Russian Church to indicate the Russian prize. It is blue like a Topaz to indicate the jewel. Again, this is a clue about the treasure itself, not its location. Here is a picture of the church: hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/veidj3vcj5uev3d/Assumption.jpg On the Secret Wiki Status Grid and on the Image #12 page, there is discordant information about the appropriate verse. The Status grid claims that Verse #10 is correct. On the Image #12 page, Sonoran claims that Verse #6 is correct, but thinks it refers to the Alexander Holley Monument in Washington Square park . I had to figure out which was the true verse and location on my own. The correct verse is Verse #6, but Sonoran is wrong about the location. To review what I posted previously, so that the entire solution is consolidated into one place (with some updates/editing) here is the solution to Verse #6: Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here Refers to Broadway Musicals in New York City. Start on Broadway. A note about how I interpret Byron Preiss clues. Some of his clues are quotes from literature. They imply a feature we are supposed to figure out, but are not intended to be used as a direct quote or to purely be true to the source material. For example, a quote from Treasure Island does not mean we have to be on an Island (although Manhattan is an island) or that we have to be dealing with pirates. Romance, tales, and tunes can mean Broadway shows. By eyes of old I’ll get back to this one. It becomes clear later in the verse. Stand and listen to the birds Lots of pigeons on statues in New York. Indicates we are looking for a public park with a monument/statue. There is a monument in the center of Columbus Circle, where Broadway intersects 8th Avenue and 59th Street. (That is not the correct place. But it is on the way, so lets go there first to work it out and see if the solution becomes more obvious.) Hear the cool, clear song of water. Oops, no fountain at the monument on Columbus Circle. But what is that right across the street at the southwest entrance to Central Park ? A monument with fountains on it? Yes! Let’s cross the street and look at the U.S.S. Maine National Monument. Here is a picture: hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/aeq1dr69h8kjg2m/IMG_2421.jpg Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century To be honest, I don’t know what "Freedom at the birth of a century" means. But even without this clue, the subsequent clues prove me right. Or May 1913 The U.S.S. Maine National Monument was dedicated May 30, 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him This is a quote from the book “Abroad in America” about someone named Edward Blyden. Again, I believe Byron Preiss used literary references to imply things - that we are talking about someone named Edward. I do not think he intended to require that the source material must be used literally to fulfill the clue. (For example a quote from Herman Melville was meant to lead to Hermann Park in Houston, not necessarily leading to whatever the exact words of the quote were about.) Instead, this quote about someone named Edward refers to the building at 2 Columbus Circle designed by the famous architect EDWARD Durrell Stone. We are in the right place. Or on the eighth a scene Where are we again? The intersection of Broadway, with EIGHTH Avenue and 59th Street. We are still in the right place. Now I will explain “By eyes of old”: One side of the USS Maine National Monument has a young figure representing the Pacific Ocean (discovered later), hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/5xaaz6s9dnqd7od/IMG_2430.jpg the other side has an old figure, representing the Atlantic Ocean (known to European explorers first). hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/wifm5sdg3990svc/Atlantic.jpg The verse is indicating to go toward the side of the monument with the older figure. Where law defended Between two arms extended Now here is where it gets tricky. There are actually 3 figures on this monument who have two arms extended. In the front are a young boy named Victory hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/witufrfoa7peku2/IMG_2420.jpg and a woman named Courage. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/4jz3o8pvgdmphfo/IMG_2419.jpg In the back is a woman named Justice. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/usszgd5z3lj4y9q/IMG_2431.jpg Justice is more likely to be a defender of law. Also, old Atlantic Ocean is looking backwards at Justice, not forwards towards Victory and Courage. So Justice is seen here by eyes of old. Below the bar that binds A literary way of saying a sand bar binding a ship. The front of the Monument is sculpted into the prow of a ship. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/aeq1dr69h8kjg2m/IMG_2421.jpg At the rear of the monument is a sandy area. This could almost be considered to look like a ship caught on a sand bar. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/lo2e3sd9kjx3wj2/IMG_2423.jpg Beside the long palm's shadow There is a plaque is on the monument between the old Atlantic Ocean figure and the rear-facing Justice. Several copies of this plaque were stamped out and affixed to several USS Maine memorials across the country. There is a long palm frond on the plaque. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/yglbdolz53p8iqp/IMG_2435.jpg Alternate Solution: Justice has her right hand partially clenched and her left hand more open.  Her left/our right is the long palm.   That is the side closer to the old Atlantic Ocean figure, and to the plaque too.  So it all fits. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/7zubwpw612mot8n/Justice.jpg Either way, we want to know what is below that plaque. What about the figures with outstretched arms in front? Victory has both hands clenched.  Courage has both hands open.  The phrase long palm does not distinguish which side to dig on, if you are looking at the front figures. Embedded in the sand Again, there is a sandy area at the rear of the monument instead of having the marble sidewalks go all the way around. This is where to dig. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/zxrs2w8z07nh0u6/IMG_2440.jpg and hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/xqp3er4o938v62t/IMG_2441.jpg Waits the Fair remuneration Here is where the prize is. Dig in the sand under the plaque in between Justice and the Atlantic Ocean. White house close at hand. A distractor to make you think of Washington DC. The building 262 Central Park West is also known as the White House. We are at the southwest corner of Central Park , not too far from the building. But now that we are at that location, I promised you some additional visual confirmation. So here are the additional clues. H) The bottom of the dress of the woman in the painting is in the shape of the northern and eastern borders of Maine, if Maine were rotated upside down. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/10o0mc8nzo55clz/MaineDress.jpg I) Look closely at the prow of the ship just below Victory. Our friendly eagle is NOT a generic New York clue from the Chrysler Building, but a specific confirmation that I am correct. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/5n6xgw4wmida2y3/IMG_2432.jpg J) The same goes for the rectangle to the left of the Russian Church. There are 4 of these pylons located on the site. That is NOT a world trade center, as some have suggested. It IS a feature of the U.S.S. Maine memorial. 2 of the pylons have doors that are green with age. 2 are still black hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/mg8emdutklmt3rc/IMG_2425.jpg K) It is a little hard to see because my photos are taken from below Justice, who has her arms up. Instead, the painting has her arms down so you see the hands from the front. But the finger positioning on the “two arms extended” of Justice matches the finger positioning in the painting. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/6vohng2ohgds77w/IMG_2439-2.jpg L) I also think the head of one of the horses from the top of the monument can be seen in the waves. This is not as clear-cut as the other clues. hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/zztpc6e6w18bbga/Horses.jpg M) I know Byron Preiss said that only the Pictures and Verses mattered. I know that the rest of the book is not *supposed* to contain clues. But could Page 67 of The Secret make it any more clear about the fact that Mr. Preiss found this location to be interesting and spent some time here when planning the book? hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/lzmk84rvcsov8o9/IMG_2415.jpg I rest my case. P.S. I noticed page 67 after I got my copy of the book, which was AFTER I had already decided that this was the location. But it was a nice confirmatory element.

DocZ, its not my job to give you guff...but I do like your effort.

This is really compelling, DocZ. I am not completely convinced, but it is compelling for sure. I haven't seen the Times Square interpretation before -- I love that, and it seems in line with the kind of wordplay/imageplay that BP and JJP would engage in.

I LOVE the eagle and I also love the photo on page 67 of the statue. Very interesting and impressive indeed. My problems continue to be, in no particular order: 1) I do NOT see Maine in the outline of her dress -- the other maps (Ohio and Roanoke for example) are EXACT renditions of the place and that robe is just, by comparison, NOT spot on; 2) much of he language is guesswork to make it fit - in both the Cleveland and Chicago verses, not a word was wasted, let alone a full sentence or three. But here for example, you are suggesting the first three lines are all related to "Broadway." While I like the interpretation generally, I do not believe BP would have devoted three lines to one thought like that; and 3) it is just so hard for me to imagine BP digging in the sand outside the entrance to Central Park at ANY time of day, inconspicously. Someone surely would have seen him exposed there and either stopped this crazy man from digging, or, in the case of the average New Yorker, waited til he was gone and just dug it up immediately to see what had been left there. And I am NOT being critical, as I was REALLY intrigued by a lot of what you posted, but I sort of feel that the Edwin and Edwina line is a stretch to say there is a building across the way built by an architect named Edward. Just does not jive with the kind of prose he wrote in the ones that were solved that were SO location sensitive. Same with the White House line. I agree it designed as a distraction creating the impression of DC, but clearly not - still, while I love that there is a building that fronts Central Park West known as the white house, it is located up between 85th and 86th, while the Columbus Circle entrance to the Park (the area you are focused in on) is almost 30 NYC blocks south at 58th/59th and that is a LONG way to correspond the idea that White House is close at hand -- UNLESS, and I have not been over there to see it myself -- one of those white structures with the black or green doors could be considered a "White house" that is close at hand (meaning look for the one that is close to where one of the significant statue hands is pointing?! Just a thought.) Anyway, I am excited about the prospect of a new theory and completely applaud your effort thus far. And I will be thrilled if, and when, you actually go over there and dig it up. I am just saying there remains an awful lot that seems disconnected. That church, while it might be the one in Russia, is a big time stretch for me, as it seems more something you can see from the location, rather than a reference to a country of origin. And those darn red and blue bauble panels - they remain the key to me to solving this puzzle. Until someone is standing somewhere and can tie those in, this casque will never be found. NO WAY BP and JP would have wasted those many panels in the illustration on something unless it was extremely important and tied directly into the sight itself, and my guess is, again, something easily seen from the location when you are standing close to where he buried that casque. Stained glass somewhere?! I did notice that there are a number of subway stops on the map at the nearby Columbus Circle spot. I wonder if there is a corresponding color scheme for that that might tie in here (I know people have posted previously about colors of subways and train lines and maybe that might be some kind of marker). A good start and a great way to have spent much of my afternoon doing some digging around in support of your theory, at the expense of my job, but not yet thoroughly convinced the way you are that you are in the right place. I sincerely hope I am wrong for your sake.

I LOVE the eagle and I also love the photo on page 67 of the statue. Very interesting and impressive indeed. My problems continue to be, in no particular order: 1) I do NOT see Maine in the outline of her dress -- the other maps (Ohio and Roanoke for example) are EXACT renditions of the place and that robe is just, by comparison, NOT spot on; 2) much of he language is guesswork to make it fit - in both the Cleveland and Chicago verses, not a word was wasted, let alone a full sentence or three. But here for example, you are suggesting the first three lines are all related to "Broadway." While I like the interpretation generally, I do not believe BP would have devoted three lines to one thought like that; and 3) it is just so hard for me to imagine BP digging in the sand outside the entrance to Central Park at ANY time of day, inconspicously. Someone surely would have seen him exposed there and either stopped this crazy man from digging, or, in the case of the average New Yorker, waited til he was gone and just dug it up immediately to see what had been left there. And I am NOT being critical, as I was REALLY intrigued by a lot of what you posted, but I sort of feel that the Edwin and Edwina line is a stretch to say there is a building across the way built by an architect named Edward. Just does not jive with the kind of prose he wrote in the ones that were solved that were SO location sensitive. Same with the White House line. I agree it designed as a distraction creating the impression of DC, but clearly not - still, while I love that there is a building that fronts Central Park West known as the white house, it is located up between 85th and 86th, while the Columbus Circle entrance to the Park (the area you are focused in on) is almost 30 NYC blocks south at 58th/59th and that is a LONG way to correspond the idea that White House is close at hand -- UNLESS, and I have not been over there to see it myself -- one of those white structures with the black or green doors could be considered a "White house" that is close at hand (meaning look for the one that is close to where one of the significant statue hands is pointing?! Just a thought.) Anyway, I am excited about the prospect of a new theory and completely applaud your effort thus far. And I will be thrilled if, and when, you actually go over there and dig it up. I am just saying there remains an awful lot that seems disconnected. That church, while it might be the one in Russia, is a big time stretch for me, as it seems more something you can see from the location, rather than a reference to a country of origin. And those darn red and blue bauble panels - they remain the key to me to solving this puzzle. Until someone is standing somewhere and can tie those in, this casque will never be found. NO WAY BP and JP would have wasted those many panels in the illustration on something unless it was extremely important and tied directly into the sight itself, and my guess is, again, something easily seen from the location when you are standing close to where he buried that casque. Stained glass somewhere?! I did notice that there are a number of subway stops on the map at the nearby Columbus Circle spot. I wonder if there is a corresponding color scheme for that that might tie in here (I know people have posted previously about colors of subways and train lines and maybe that might be some kind of marker). A good start and a great way to have spent much of my afternoon doing some digging around in support of your theory, at the expense of my job, but not yet thoroughly convinced the way you are that you are in the right place. I sincerely hope I am wrong for your sake.

Poking around this site today in an effort to help my friend Egbert and his upcoming St Augustine search. Sometimes I forget how many really smart people have done so much work on this site already. When I referred to DocZ's theory as new I was obviously wrong. This USS Maine Memorial/Columbus Circle theory has been presented before as I saw a link dating back to 2009. I apologize for not seeing that before my earlier post.

Siskel wrote:: Sometimes I forget how many really smart people have done so much work on this site already. When I referred to DocZ's theory as new I was obviously wrong. This USS Maine Memorial/Columbus Circle theory has been presented before as I saw a link dating back to 2009. I apologize for not seeing that before my earlier post. I had come up with the idea on my own. Search was not working when I joined the board. I had to read the entire Verse #6 thread to see if the idea had been already been discussed and discredited before I posted my idea. Rookhunter had suggested it in January 2013, but White Rabbit emphatically shot him down with the “It’s not in Central Park ” quote, and Rookhunter dropped it. I am of the opinion that the U.S.S. Maine Monument counts as being “at the entrance to” the park , not “in” the park . I think Byron Preiss was intentionally vague to throw us off the trail. Thus, I did not take that quote to mean that the idea had been discredited, which is why I am advocating it. I did PM Rookhunter to see if he wanted to work with me, but he is not located in New York. However, now that Search has been fixed, I now see that I missed the fact that there was an entirely different thread on Columbus Circle & Maine Monument New York started by m220m on 6/16/09. Plus the thread mentions Bazile, who at least noticed the eagle even before that, in July 2008. m220m even mentions that he sees my same confirmers [Eagle, Woman (I assume he means the 2 arms of Justice), and Rectangle (the 4 pylons)]. Furthermore, that thread even discussed that the Monument could technically be considered to be outside the park . But then forest_blight raises a questions about the first few lines of the Verse, and the topic gets dropped. I wonder why? It was a great idea then and is still a great idea now. I agree, there are a lot of smart members on this board. I may not be the first, but I know this is right, so I'm not going to drop it like the others.

Siskel wrote:: Sometimes I forget how many really smart people have done so much work on this site already. When I referred to DocZ's theory as new I was obviously wrong. This USS Maine Memorial/Columbus Circle theory has been presented before as I saw a link dating back to 2009. I apologize for not seeing that before my earlier post. I had come up with the idea on my own. Search was not working when I joined the board. I had to read the entire Verse #6 thread to see if the idea had been already been discussed and discredited before I posted my idea. Rookhunter had suggested it in January 2013, but White Rabbit emphatically shot him down with the “It’s not in Central Park” quote, and Rookhunter dropped it. I am of the opinion that the U.S.S. Maine Monument counts as being “at the entrance to” the park, not “in” the park. I think Byron Preiss was intentionally vague to throw us off the trail. Thus, I did not take that quote to mean that the idea had been discredited, which is why I am advocating it. I did PM Rookhunter to see if he wanted to work with me, but he is not located in New York. However, now that Search has been fixed, I now see that I missed the fact that there was an entirely different thread on Columbus Circle & Maine Monument New York started by m220m on 6/16/09. Plus the thread mentions Bazile, who at least noticed the eagle even before that, in July 2008. m220m even mentions that he sees my same confirmers [Eagle, Woman (I assume he means the 2 arms of Justice), and Rectangle (the 4 pylons)]. Furthermore, that thread even discussed that the Monument could technically be considered to be outside the park. But then forest_blight raises a questions about the first few lines of the Verse, and the topic gets dropped. I wonder why? It was a great idea then and is still a great idea now. I agree, there are a lot of smart members on this board. I may not be the first, but I know this is right, so I'm not going to drop it like the others.

Wow, I totally forgot all that. Sometime when I have a free year I will go back and read all the old discussions.

Siskel Wrote: “My problems continue to be, in no particular order: 1) I do NOT see Maine in the outline of her dress -- the other maps (Ohio and Roanoke for example) are EXACT renditions of the place and that robe is just, by comparison, NOT spot on” I am not sure about the Ohio map being “spot on.” The centaur’s tail matched a curved road. It is not like it was a detailed map or anything. I agree that the shape of Roanoke island in the window frame is more obvious. But I think my Maine outline is as good as the Cleveland clue. Siskel Wrote: “2) much of the language is guesswork to make it fit - in both the Cleveland and Chicago verses, not a word was wasted, let alone a full sentence or three. But here for example, you are suggesting the first three lines are all related to "Broadway." While I like the interpretation generally, I do not believe BP would have devoted three lines to one thought like that” The lines definitely refer to Broadway. Could they have meant 3 different shows currently in production at the time: Some romance show, Cats (tails and tunes), and Phantom of the Opera (Cruel and Bold)? Would you be happier if each line were a clue unto itself? Fine, it is possible that they were intended to be. But that doesn’t change the final solution. Those lines just get us to a road before we reach an approximate location. The more detailed steps come later. Look at Verse #11. The consensus is that the first line, “Pass two friends of Octave” refer to Orville and Wilbur Wright, who have a monument nearby and who were friends with someone named Octavio Chanute. Personally, I think friends of octave refers to Highway 64 (8 x 8 ) and 264 (200 + 8 x 8 ). Either way, if you know that the next lines “Ride the man of oz To the land near the window” refer to the Baum Ferry to Roanoke Island, then it doesn’t matter that you were wrong about the octave line. In the same way, the subsequent visual confirmers at the U.S.S. Maine site mean that even if all 3 of the lines did not represent Broadway, the fact that even one of the lines led to Broadway and then to the correct location means we can let the other 2 lines slide. As an aside, BP has lots of quotes that refer to roads, like “ace is high” in Verse #7 for Highway 1 in San Francisco. As another aside, that is why I don’t feel so bad not knowing what “Freedom at the birth of a century” means. It was probably an important clue, but we pick up the trail after it, so I think we are still safe. Siskel Wrote: “3) it is just so hard for me to imagine BP digging in the sand outside the entrance to Central Park at ANY time of day, inconspicously. Someone surely would have seen him exposed there and either stopped this crazy man from digging, or, in the case of the average New Yorker, waited til he was gone and just dug it up immediately to see what had been left there.” One of the articles after one of the casques was found mentions that BP did not do his digging in secret or without permission. In an interview, he stated that he did reach out to the appropriate park director at each site and explained what he was doing. (And was surprised at how easy it was to get them all to go along with it.) In fact, he says that at one site, a ranger came over and said something along the lines of “they told me about you” and then watched him until he was done. So no one said he had to dig inconspicuously. As for whether anyone saw him bury the box and then dug it up when he left - that would be typical for New Yorkers. Maybe THAT is what he meant when he said there was no treasure in central park . But one more thing, since he did get permission, in New York he would have needed a permit, not just verbal permission. I have submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to the parks department to see if they have a record of a permit being issued to Byron Preiss in 1980, 1981, or 1982. They may not have kept records like that for 30 years, but I figured it was worth a try. Siskel Wrote: “I sort of feel that the Edwin and Edwina line is a stretch to say there is a building across the way built by an architect named Edward. “ No more of a stretch than “M and B are set in stone” and “L sits” Siskel Wrote: “Same with the White House line. -- UNLESS, and I have not been over there to see it myself -- one of those white structures with the black or green doors could be considered a "White house" that is close at hand (meaning look for the one that is close to where one of the significant statue hands is pointing?! Just a thought.)” I don’t disagree with you here. There is actually sand in front of those structures too. And they are more out of the way, so digging unobtrusively would have been easier. And the 3 water drops and the jewel below the Image #12 dress could be telling you which of the 4 pylons has the treasure - except the 4 structures are arranged concave away from the monument, and the 3 water drops and the jewel are concave towards the dress... Siskel Wrote: “That church, while it might be the one in Russia, is a big time stretch for me, as it seems more something you can see from the location, rather than a reference to a country of origin.” I disagree. I think the church is for country of origin. Siskel Wrote: “And those darn red and blue bauble panels - they remain the key to me to solving this puzzle. Until someone is standing somewhere and can tie those in, this casque will never be found. NO WAY BP and JP would have wasted those many panels in the illustration on something unless it was extremely important and tied directly into the sight itself, and my guess is, again, something easily seen from the location when you are standing close to where he buried that casque. Stained glass somewhere?! I did notice that there are a number of subway stops on the map at the nearby Columbus Circle spot.” I agree that they are a clue. Again, I don’t know what. Not the colors of the subway lines that pass through there. Could they be in a mosaic on the wall of the subway station? Could they have been some modern art hanging in the Edward Stone Building (which was an art gallery or museum at that time)? But in an interview with the artist after the Cleveland casque was found, the artist said he remembered that the helmet on the centaur was a clue, but could not remember what it was meant to represent anymore. LIkewise, we may not get all the clues, but I think we are still at the right place. We just may need ground penetrating radar to make up for what we are missing in terms of unsolved clues.

Siskel Wrote: “My problems continue to be, in no particular order: 1) I do NOT see Maine in the outline of her dress -- the other maps (Ohio and Roanoke for example) are EXACT renditions of the place and that robe is just, by comparison, NOT spot on” I am not sure about the Ohio map being “spot on.” The centaur’s tail matched a curved road. It is not like it was a detailed map or anything. I agree that the shape of Roanoke island in the window frame is more obvious. But I think my Maine outline is as good as the Cleveland clue. Siskel Wrote: “2) much of the language is guesswork to make it fit - in both the Cleveland and Chicago verses, not a word was wasted, let alone a full sentence or three. But here for example, you are suggesting the first three lines are all related to "Broadway." While I like the interpretation generally, I do not believe BP would have devoted three lines to one thought like that” The lines definitely refer to Broadway. Could they have meant 3 different shows currently in production at the time: Some romance show, Cats (tails and tunes), and Phantom of the Opera (Cruel and Bold)? Would you be happier if each line were a clue unto itself? Fine, it is possible that they were intended to be. But that doesn’t change the final solution. Those lines just get us to a road before we reach an approximate location. The more detailed steps come later. Look at Verse #11. The consensus is that the first line, “Pass two friends of Octave” refer to Orville and Wilbur Wright, who have a monument nearby and who were friends with someone named Octavio Chanute. Personally, I think friends of octave refers to Highway 64 (8 x 8 ) and 264 (200 + 8 x 8 ). Either way, if you know that the next lines “Ride the man of oz To the land near the window” refer to the Baum Ferry to Roanoke Island, then it doesn’t matter that you were wrong about the octave line. In the same way, the subsequent visual confirmers at the U.S.S. Maine site mean that even if all 3 of the lines did not represent Broadway, the fact that even one of the lines led to Broadway and then to the correct location means we can let the other 2 lines slide. As an aside, BP has lots of quotes that refer to roads, like “ace is high” in Verse #7 for Highway 1 in San Francisco. As another aside, that is why I don’t feel so bad not knowing what “Freedom at the birth of a century” means. It was probably an important clue, but we pick up the trail after it, so I think we are still safe. Siskel Wrote: “3) it is just so hard for me to imagine BP digging in the sand outside the entrance to Central Park at ANY time of day, inconspicously. Someone surely would have seen him exposed there and either stopped this crazy man from digging, or, in the case of the average New Yorker, waited til he was gone and just dug it up immediately to see what had been left there.” One of the articles after one of the casques was found mentions that BP did not do his digging in secret or without permission. In an interview, he stated that he did reach out to the appropriate park director at each site and explained what he was doing. (And was surprised at how easy it was to get them all to go along with it.) In fact, he says that at one site, a ranger came over and said something along the lines of “they told me about you” and then watched him until he was done. So no one said he had to dig inconspicuously. As for whether anyone saw him bury the box and then dug it up when he left - that would be typical for New Yorkers. Maybe THAT is what he meant when he said there was no treasure in central park. But one more thing, since he did get permission, in New York he would have needed a permit, not just verbal permission. I have submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to the parks department to see if they have a record of a permit being issued to Byron Preiss in 1980, 1981, or 1982. They may not have kept records like that for 30 years, but I figured it was worth a try. Siskel Wrote: “I sort of feel that the Edwin and Edwina line is a stretch to say there is a building across the way built by an architect named Edward. “ No more of a stretch than “M and B are set in stone” and “L sits” Siskel Wrote: “Same with the White House line. -- UNLESS, and I have not been over there to see it myself -- one of those white structures with the black or green doors could be considered a "White house" that is close at hand (meaning look for the one that is close to where one of the significant statue hands is pointing?! Just a thought.)” I don’t disagree with you here. There is actually sand in front of those structures too. And they are more out of the way, so digging unobtrusively would have been easier. And the 3 water drops and the jewel below the Image #12 dress could be telling you which of the 4 pylons has the treasure - except the 4 structures are arranged concave away from the monument, and the 3 water drops and the jewel are concave towards the dress... Siskel Wrote: “That church, while it might be the one in Russia, is a big time stretch for me, as it seems more something you can see from the location, rather than a reference to a country of origin.” I disagree. I think the church is for country of origin. Siskel Wrote: “And those darn red and blue bauble panels - they remain the key to me to solving this puzzle. Until someone is standing somewhere and can tie those in, this casque will never be found. NO WAY BP and JP would have wasted those many panels in the illustration on something unless it was extremely important and tied directly into the sight itself, and my guess is, again, something easily seen from the location when you are standing close to where he buried that casque. Stained glass somewhere?! I did notice that there are a number of subway stops on the map at the nearby Columbus Circle spot.” I agree that they are a clue. Again, I don’t know what. Not the colors of the subway lines that pass through there. Could they be in a mosaic on the wall of the subway station? Could they have been some modern art hanging in the Edward Stone Building (which was an art gallery or museum at that time)? But in an interview with the artist after the Cleveland casque was found, the artist said he remembered that the helmet on the centaur was a clue, but could not remember what it was meant to represent anymore. LIkewise, we may not get all the clues, but I think we are still at the right place. We just may need ground penetrating radar to make up for what we are missing in terms of unsolved clues.

DocZ wrote:: In an interview, he stated that he did reach out to the appropriate park director at each site and explained what he was doing. (And was surprised at how easy it was to get them all to go along with it.) In fact, he says that at one site, a ranger came over and said something along the lines of “they told me about you” and then watched him until he was done. So no one said he had to dig inconspicuously. DocZ wrote:: I have submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to the parks department to see if they have a record of a permit being issued to Byron Preiss in 1980, 1981, or 1982. They may not have kept records like that for 30 years, but I figured it was worth a try. Can you remind us where you read this? I've seen a few contemporary articles in the Chicago Tribune and they don't mention this aspect. Creative, but... wow, way to ruin a hunt, buddy. Did you ever read about how Masquerade's "Golden Hare" was discovered? By subterfuge, investigating Kit Williams' movements around the time he buried the treasure, not by playing the game he devised. It's not very cricket.

DocZ wrote:: In an interview, he stated that he did reach out to the appropriate park director at each site and explained what he was doing. (And was surprised at how easy it was to get them all to go along with it.) In fact, he says that at one site, a ranger came over and said something along the lines of “they told me about you” and then watched him until he was done. So no one said he had to dig inconspicuously. DocZ wrote:: I have submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to the parks department to see if they have a record of a permit being issued to Byron Preiss in 1980, 1981, or 1982. They may not have kept records like that for 30 years, but I figured it was worth a try. Can you remind us where you read this? I've seen a few contemporary articles in the Chicago Tribune and they don't mention this aspect. Creative, but... wow, way to ruin a hunt, buddy. Did you ever read about how Masquerade's "Golden Hare" was discovered? By subterfuge, investigating Kit Williams' movements around the time he buried the treasure, not by playing the game he devised. It's not very cricket.

forest_blight wrote:: Can you remind us where you read this? I've seen a few contemporary articles in the Chicago Tribune and they don't mention this aspect. forest_blight wrote:: Creative, but... wow, way to ruin a hunt, buddy. Did you ever read about how Masquerade's "Golden Hare" was discovered? By subterfuge, investigating Kit Williams' movements around the time he buried the treasure, not by playing the game he devised. It's not very cricket. A) My bad. It was in an article about the San Francisco treasure. I mis-read it. It was a hunter named Matthew Sparks who got permission to dig, not Byron Preiss. B) i) Now that we just established that maybe he didn't get a permit, it is a moot point. ii) I was not using the Freedom of Information request to solve the puzzle - like going to Milwaukee where I have no clue where within the city the treasure is and asking for the copy of his permit to narrow my search. I already figured out the majority of clues in both the Verse and the Image. I was only using the the request for a historical document to confirm what I already know. Since I will need to ask for a permit too, and since the bureaucrat evaluating my permit application may not appreciate my riddle solving ability, having an actual document as proof might make the difference in terms of getting permission to dig. The game is not over until the casque is out of the ground, so making sure I am allowed to dig is not ruining the hunt.

I agree that the FOIA was a fresh idea, but also not the best "form." The Cleveland map match was not the centaur's tail being the curved road, but the actual state of Ohio hidden in the rocks and roots to the bottom left of the picture and THAT was a SPOT ON match. And when I met with Byron shortly before his passing, with Egbert to retrieve the jewel for the Cleveland casque, he spoke about scouting out locations and then just traveling there with a shovel and an idea and that he did not necessarily seek permission from any governmental agencies or private owners to dig. Rather, he just went at odd hours when possible and was secretive in his efforts to bury each casque. So please forgive me if I don't much care what articles say. I heard it from the source and he was honest in his description of how he went about his secret missions of hiding these things. He said he did not even share the locations with his wife. Just went and buried each one and took pictures of nearby objects to sent to JJP so that he could infuse the illustrations with some specific (and also general location, i.e. states, etc) markers. He also fashioned his prose around things generally associated with the site and also WHAT HE SAW WHILE THERE. So I DO think that every word and every line tends to count. Not that it is shrouded in secrecy requiring you to go to a library and find out the architect who built a building a few blocks away. I don't think he was trying to be THAT obtuse. But he was a wordsmith and seemed to take pride in burying as many clues as he could in a small amount of literary space.

Siskel, so you don't think a road map feature could be used from any old city map existing at the time? I thought the tail looked pretty convincing for Cleveland.

I can only tell you from my/our experience, that that tail had NOTHING to do with finding the Cleveland casque. In fact, this is the first time I have ever even looked at that photo and seen the likeness. And while it may have been a clue intentionally buried in the illustration, it was NOT the map image I was referring to that was so helpful in narrowing down the site. Rather it was the outline of the state that got us to Ohio in the first place. Whether or not the tale was a separate additional clue, I have no real thought one way or the other. It certainly seems to bare a resemblance to the road that curved beneath two countries. But ultimately there were so many better markers in place both through the illustration and the prose that the tale played no part in our search.

Siskel wrote:: Whether or not the tale was a separate additional clue, I have no real thought one way or the other. It certainly seems to bare a resemblance to the road that curved beneath two countries. But ultimately there were so many better markers in place both through the illustration and the prose that the tale played no part in our search. And that is the point I was trying to make. We don't need to solve EVERY possible clue to get where we need to be. The 3 pointillism panels are certainly a clue. But even though I don't know what they mean, the eagle head on the monument, the shape of the arms on Justice - which also match the "two arms extended" on the verse, and the 4 pylons with the dark rectangular doors in the same proportion as the vertical rectangle in the other panel tell me that this is the location, as sure as the columns and the fountain told you that the Cultural Gardens was correct.

DocZ wrote:: And that is the point I was trying to make. We don't need to solve EVERY possible clue to get where we need to be. DocZ wrote:: ... the dark rectangular doors in the same proportion as the vertical rectangle in the other panel tell me that this is the location, as sure as the columns and the fountain told you that the Cultural Gardens was correct. Agree completely. This is the case with Chicago also. Disagree completely. The "columns" area was a polaroid, but there are many doors - metaphorically and in reality. You'd need a better/different match to be sure.

There was a time when nobody had any idea how these puzzles might work. If there is a nearby roadmap feature to be found in any or all of these, it can be a significant help to closing the gap. Roads may change though. Milwaukee had some major roadway alterations. Since the centaur tail came to my attention Ive been more concerned with flipped and rotated image tricks. I try to allow for only simple adjustments like exact 90 or 180 degree rotation. Anything else invites too much in the way of self-inflicted-herrings. Buying road maps from 1980 may be much more helpful than using modern day google maps.

Siskel wrote:: email from BP saying "nothing was buried in Central Park" The guys from Chicago also were told "There was no treasure buried in Chicago" BUT....this came from BP's secretary not from him himself....very clever to deny everything at first. Siskel when you met with him you and Egg stated that he had a great poker face and wasn't leaking any info about the other casques....is this just another way of him saying that he just isn't saying...? Probably unlikely of him to bury it in the MOST LIKELY spot in New York. He was from the Prospect Park area of Brooklyn, probably knew that park better than most, maybe spent more time there than any...Just thinking about him as a person, I would put it in Prospect Park. A friend of mine says there are some visual clues that can be seen there that relate to the picture, I can't verify them yet. In any case, one way to look at it different (as I do with these) is consider the man who buried them. The New York site was probably special to him as it was his home, his birthplace...of all the cities in North America, New York may be one of the hardest places to bury something unseen, just due to the enormous population. BP also had more time with this one...much more than a handful of hours during 1 week to bury the casque. Then again maybe he knew where to put it for years, a place he's been many times and knows like the back of his hand...somewhere familiar. I wouldn't doubt that he has visited that statue in Central Park many times, but that's just because his office is only blocks off the park...he surely made use of it.... Open your mind up to more than the hunt, think about the Man...BP, think about the era this took place, and put yourself in BP's shoes....what if you were creating this....what stumbling blocks might you encounter...what was going on in those cities back then that could effect BP's plan...Often it doesn't hurt to reverse engineer the puzzle....find a place that looks and feels like it could be right and work in reverse... It might be a little more tedious and difficult, but I assure you....you will see things differently, and it may help you unlock another clue. Spend some time on the man and the myth and the answer may be more apparent. Don't close your eyes to the person BP was...consider how his personal feelings may have influenced his placements. Look for themes in the partial solutions...in literature, anything that points to a method...I would guess when all the riddles are solved and casque locations uncovered, there may be a bigger picture, which if we knew now, may help us get there. By the way Siskel and Egg...why did you pick Cleveland when both of you were closer to NYC? Just curious? Also can we expect a report on what's going on with Renner's Doc and the hunt he and Brian are apparently going on in FL?

Siskel wrote:: email from BP saying "nothing was buried in Central Park " The guys from Chicago also were told "There was no treasure buried in Chicago" BUT....this came from BP's secretary not from him himself....very clever to deny everything at first. Siskel when you met with him you and Egg stated that he had a great poker face and wasn't leaking any info about the other casques....is this just another way of him saying that he just isn't saying...? Probably unlikely of him to bury it in the MOST LIKELY spot in New York. He was from the Prospect Park area of Brooklyn, probably knew that park better than most, maybe spent more time there than any...Just thinking about him as a person, I would put it in Prospect Park . A friend of mine says there are some visual clues that can be seen there that relate to the picture, I can't verify them yet. In any case, one way to look at it different (as I do with these) is consider the man who buried them. The New York site was probably special to him as it was his home, his birthplace...of all the cities in North America, New York may be one of the hardest places to bury something unseen, just due to the enormous population. BP also had more time with this one...much more than a handful of hours during 1 week to bury the casque. Then again maybe he knew where to put it for years, a place he's been many times and knows like the back of his hand...somewhere familiar. I wouldn't doubt that he has visited that statue in Central Park many times, but that's just because his office is only blocks off the park ...he surely made use of it.... Open your mind up to more than the hunt, think about the Man...BP, think about the era this took place, and put yourself in BP's shoes....what if you were creating this....what stumbling blocks might you encounter...what was going on in those cities back then that could effect BP's plan...Often it doesn't hurt to reverse engineer the puzzle....find a place that looks and feels like it could be right and work in reverse... It might be a little more tedious and difficult, but I assure you....you will see things differently, and it may help you unlock another clue. Spend some time on the man and the myth and the answer may be more apparent. Don't close your eyes to the person BP was...consider how his personal feelings may have influenced his placements. Look for themes in the partial solutions...in literature, anything that points to a method...I would guess when all the riddles are solved and casque locations uncovered, there may be a bigger picture, which if we knew now, may help us get there. By the way Siskel and Egg...why did you pick Cleveland when both of you were closer to NYC? Just curious? Also can we expect a report on what's going on with Renner's Doc and the hunt he and Brian are apparently going on in FL?

Once I played around with the possibilities, I found the acrostic puzzle might have a little more to do with Washington: According to the historical walking tour at San Juan Island's American Camp (Military Base), General William Selby Harney ordered Captain George Pickett and his men to go to San Juan Island in NW WA to settle a dispute between American settlers and British soldiers. 1) move the "W" from the 2nd line to the 5th line. 2) move the "B" from the 5th line to the 14th line. 3) move the "O" from the 14th line to the 2nd. 4) shift the letters on lines 7-10 from AYSS to SAYS, you now have a coherent and complete message: TO NW WA SAYS SELBY. It's fascinating that there's a visual reference to a window relating to Washington in Selby, England and a veiled reference to a US Army General with the middle name Selby. T T T W T O N N N W W W B B W A A A A A S Y Y A S S Y S S S S S S E E E L L L O O B Y Y Y

erexere wrote:: you now have a coherent and complete message: TO NW WA SAYS SELBY. No, we don't. Honestly. We don't.

Is that because you've solved something to the extent that you're willing to ignore any alternatives?

Reveille aka First Call might be how Preiss links this casque location to the "Goodness first" concept. I think all the solutions may incorporate a "first" association.

The big fountain in Bryant Park was put there in May '13. I actually had put the same verses together recently myself but in a different direction. Bryant is very close to the Chrysler building. Edwin and Edwina Booth are both actors, and the Booth Theater is over on eighth . There's a statue of a portuguese revolutionary there, as well as the NYPL. It's not even close to fleshed out like your theory is, but I'm in Boston not NY.

The big fountain in Bryant Park was put there in May '13. I actually had put the same verses together recently myself but in a different direction. Bryant is very close to the Chrysler building. Edwin and Edwina Booth are both actors, and the Booth Theater is over on eighth . There's a statue of a portuguese revolutionary there, as well as the NYPL. It's not even close to fleshed out like your theory is, but I'm in Boston not NY.

The more I learn about this cask the more I think it may be unrecoverable.

Xieish wrote:: The more I learn about this cask the more I think it may be unrecoverable. What reason(s)? Missing markers or other changes to landscape?

Both. I know making pronouncements like this without proof is bad form, but as far as I know my solution to this one isn't public. My research has been done entirely in private (by myself) and I'm very confident I know approximately where it was buried. I am not confident that the verse can be followed to the casque anymore. I'm going to come up with a time in the near future to put my money where my mouth is and go look, I guess

These forums are less private than they use to be, so your position on the subject is understandable. Its up to you to decide whether you are generating your own IP. It takes a lot to say you havent used anything said by others to help you form your approach or sense for the methodology. Its safe to assume here at this forum that everyone shares and shares alike to find these casques. Sir Eg and others have done a great job pioneering that philosophy. I myself have to be careful of a particular solution that I'm currently only willing to trust a few folks with. My solution is probably out if bounds in its scope, but all the same, I really want to further the cause with a sense of whom exactly has access to that information. You know who you are. If you havent got a PM from me lately, send me a request for the intel. As far as 87.5% of my work goes, I've done my best to share it with all y'all. I know PMs can be cumbersome, but maybe we should tolerate that level of security for however long anyone remains concerned.

I do not mean to say that my work is not 'standing on the shoulders of giants' at all - but at the same time borrowing methodologies or using an image/statue/etc. that someone suggested isn't quite the same as sharing resources. Even I don't have that level of hubris. What I meant is that besides a few odds and ends my proposed solution is not on the internet at all, or on anyone's (public) radar. As such, I would like to keep it that way. If anyone else is hot on the same location, they've kept it 100% off of these boards and others. If I felt I needed help or some guidance I would absolutely say "here's what I have, I'm stuck." But I'm past that, there's nothing anyone can do here - the next step is to visit the site.

Is it somewhere secluded where you could bury a casque without being interrupted?

I spent all my hubris on junk so I went and borrowed some from a goon at SomethingAwful...pretty high interest too. Visiting a site if it has anything confirming is bound to be an awesome experience. Good luck when you go for it. Where on the scale of difficulty to you think this casque lands? Which casque do you think is the hardest to solve?

Neither of the other solved ones are particularly secluded. There was a wedding going on when Egbert & Siskel dug, and Grant Park has the 'hush' line for that reason. It's right by a road. I know the park with 100% certainty, the area with STRONG certainty, but need to be on site to see if it can still be dug. I believe Preiss made an error burying it here in the first place, & all of NY got obliterated during Sandy as well, wiping away a ton of signage and markers, as well as generating millions in new construction. There is a clear, unmistakable path that culminates in a location that I have also located in the painting with almost 100% certainty. Unfortunately, the rest is up to luck, whether or not you can solve the final piece of the riddle still. I suspect you can't. But I'm in Boston, it's not hard to arrange a trip. I thought this one was he hardest for a long time due to the image's... Bleakness. but now I don't think so. I believe it's one of the more confined ones, I know some of them stretch over a few miles.

Neither of the other solved ones are particularly secluded. There was a wedding going on when Egbert & Siskel dug, and Grant Park has the 'hush' line for that reason. It's right by a road. I know the park with 100% certainty, the area with STRONG certainty, but need to be on site to see if it can still be dug. I believe Preiss made an error burying it here in the first place, & all of NY got obliterated during Sandy as well, wiping away a ton of signage and markers, as well as generating millions in new construction. There is a clear, unmistakable path that culminates in a location that I have also located in the painting with almost 100% certainty. Unfortunately, the rest is up to luck, whether or not you can solve the final piece of the riddle still. I suspect you can't. But I'm in Boston, it's not hard to arrange a trip. I thought this one was he hardest for a long time due to the image's... Bleakness. but now I don't think so. I believe it's one of the more confined ones, I know some of them stretch over a few miles.

I think this one is top tier difficulty. Full on red herring both visual and verse wise.

.

I solved it tonight for sure. It's gone. I will be posting what I have of the solution eventually. It is conclusive in every way. It's been a parking lot since at least 1995. I guess I'll see if I can still get my gem.

Xieish wrote:: I solved it tonight for sure. It's gone. I will be posting what I have of the solution soon. It is conclusive in every way. It's been a parking lot since at least 1995. I guess I'll see if I can still get my gem. so are you saying an area in the park,has become a parking lot, or the whole park is now a parking lot

to get your gem, you need the casque and key, - at this point nothing is substitute-able for that. Since the people with the gems don't have the solutions, the only way to check your answer is to find the casque. Cant wait to see how you "solved" it.

This would stand up in court. I plan on pursuing it as best I can.

The location is definitely in Prospect Park because the contour lines on this topo map match the swirling water at the bottom of image 12. You need to turn the book clockwise 90 degrees to compare it. hxxp://bit.ly/1wbTdCj (13845)

The Falls looks a good spot. hxxp://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC1N ... c1f7d3fdf8 It even won a geocaching award! Lots of photos of the waterfall here to compare with the lower part of the image 12: hxxp://www.geocaching.com/seek/gallery. ... c1f7d3fdf8

Xieish wrote:: This would stand up in court. I plan on pursuing it as best I can. What, you're going to sue them for the prize?

Correct me if I'm wrong but it kind of sounds like you didn't solve it. that you more likely have a general idea of the location. Prospect Park sounds great. How does the verse play out to get you to the dig spot.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Correct me if I'm wrong but it kind of sounds like you didn't solve it. that you more likely have a general idea of the location. Prospect Park sounds great. How does the verse play out to get you to the dig spot. That is incorrect. I have the full solve and can point to you where it was and where it should be today.

if we put a crew together maybe we can dig LOL kidding

Xieish wrote:: That is incorrect. I have the full solve and can point to you where it was and where it should be today. I will pass on some info that Sir Egg passed to me...These are not easy to find, maybe be a little more humble about your theories. I have devoted the last 5 months of my life reading, researching, walking the verse etc... and compared to what I know now, I didn't know squat even last month. I was SURE I knew where it was THREE TIMES. I was positive I solved the riddle more than once. If the blisters on my hands from prodding aren't a reminder of why one should be humble, the weeks of sleepless nights can re-affirm. I was extremely excited when I found a few clues that had not been discussed on the forums yet, and it is powerful when something finally makes sense, but it's been 32 years and only 2 have been recovered. All I am saying is... it's not as easy as it seems, even when you think you are 100% correct on a location...there is a chance (and ask Forest Blight, or Egg, or Siskel) that you will dig a big hole and find nothing. Egg was almost ready to throw in the towel right before the Cleveland find, and I was in the middle of prodding a location when another clue hit me right in the face making me think I was way off. I'm not trying to discourage you, by all means if you feel you know the location there are steps you can take to recover it, but with the way the federal and state governments usurp power on our rights these days, the harder it is for someone to just go dig it up without repercussions . You need permits and you need to convince people that your idea is worthy of exploring. The ONLY way I am able to do what I am doing is because I tested my belief...I took it to a respected archaeologist with the backing of a museum and a camera crew. Even that wasn't enough, I chose to contact others who have been on this project longer than me and ask for their help...sharing all my theories with them. If you really believe you know where it is, start taking the steps to recover it...when you start contacting the media, and other professionals about your findings it will certainly test your resolve. I am fully aware that I could be wrong, and it may be egg on my face (no pun intended B,) but even if I am wrong I will be able to rule out several locations, narrowing the search some, and maybe through that shared knowledge, someone else may be able to solve it one day...but as Egg pointed out, until you are holding a casque, you might be a little more humble about your belief's. Most people on this board are here to help and seem to be reasonable, intelligent people. All of us want to know the answers, I personally will be donating my casque to a museum for a display if found, then people can see one up close and learn the story of the find....there is no selfishness in what I hope for with this, all I want to do is solve the puzzle. You might have other ideas, and this is still the land of the somewhat free so that's fine, but maybe just pull back a little until you have a casque. Again, no hard feelings and please keep looking, just my 2 cents. "Don't we all want what's best for each other" - Levon Helm

PM me and I'll tell you if you're right. I promise there is no doubt. What would it take to convince you? If you will never stop hunting until your death that's admirable, but I can't hand you a casque. It's under concrete.

Xieish, If it's under concrete then it's safe...put your theory out there, and even if it is where you think, there are ways to determine if you are on to something or not based on the image and the verse together. You can also obtain a GPR and penetrate through the concrete to verify. What would you be waiting for...if you feel you are right FIND a way to check...we are treasure hunters are we not?

I know I'm right, I do not need validation. I have my reasons for keeping the solution for now. Mostly that While it seems I'm being some kind of coy dick, I don't think people would stop looking anyway, and don't like or want the media Attention this hunt has gathered. If Egbert missed the cask in Cleveland and left empty handed would you not consider it solved? I'm curious. The only thing I can say is that you'll know when you solve it. Egbert can tell you the feeling - I don't have a theory for people to dissect, with a few "if you squints," I know the solution from start to end.

Xieish wrote:: If Egbert missed the cask in Cleveland and left empty handed would you not consider it solved? I'm curious. Well if you read back in the forums, Siskel considered Verse 8 solved at one point even after a casque wasn't found... I didn't feel the solution was correct and that led me to find all kinds of other clues in the verse and image...now I feel I am closer to finding that casque...but even with as much confidence I have on solving the verse...I will not be satisfied with it until I can verify it. Even if Siskel & Egbert decided to quit that day, I doubt THEY would have been satisfied either. Any solution is a theory until you are holding the treasure.

Then you see why I don't post the solution. It's more about the journey for many, and finding it yourself Would still feel wonderful, even when it leads you to the same parking lot. I want to go there even though it's gone just to walk the riddle and stand approximately where I know one was buried (final markers are all gone now). I can't go for a while though, hopefully in fall.

Well it's hard for me to comment on that...it's like saying I have a time machine but only I can use it. I hope you are right, in the same respect it would be nice to get other opinions.

You don't want the media coverage? Maybe its late or maybe I am just kind of cranky, but this "coy dick" attitude (and I am trying to use YOUR words here verbatim) seems to bypass pompous and head right towards irritating. The beauty of this site has ALWAYS been that is comes off a true shared endeavor. Most everyone seems to work well and play nice with others and information and theories are routinely shared in an altruistic way that makes this more than one treasure hunter pitted against all others. But this whole back and forth about "You KNOW WHERE IT IS START TO FINISH" and then telling people to private message you and NOT giving anything up other than extolling your own virtues and tooting your own horn, is in stark contradiction to what I have come to enjoy most in reading through the magnificent and varied thoughts of others shared in a communal setting for the good of all those involved. It has long been like one big team, with some having more to say than others, but no opinion ever trashed or treated too harshly. For the good of the site, if you think you have something then go and get it. But for the love of God and the good folks who have been pounding the pavement and digging underneath it for all these years, I urge you to lay off the "I know the answer and you don't" rhetoric. First time I have ever posted anything even close to negative on this site and its a direct result of your overconfidence that boarders on a sense of hubris you have not earned heretofore. I was there, part of a team that actually UNEARTHED a casque - and there are not a whole lot of us who can actually say that. And I just happened to be the in the right place at the right time, having done a LOT of research compiled with the help of a LOT of good people on this site (and the expertise of my friend Egbert). And I would NEVER take to this board with these sort of know-it-all rants that are being professed. It reminds me of when Daffy Duck is fighting with Bugs about finding the treasure in the cave and the genie shrinks him down to size and Bugs find him in a clam shell hugging a pearl shrieking "Its mine, all mine. You can't have it. I'm rich. I'm wealthy. Mine, mine mine." In other words, and tone of emails are REALLY hard to read, I am hoping yours is not meant to be as self important as you sound and that mine is interpreted more as friendly advice to "tone it down a few notches, PLEASE."

Siskel wrote:: It reminds me of when Daffy Duck is fighting with Bugs about finding the treasure in the cave and the genie shrinks him down to size and Bugs find him in a clam shell hugging a pearl shrieking "Its mine, all mine. You can't have it. I'm rich. I'm wealthy. Mine, mine mine." ROFL - That brings me back Geez...I am old

It's not self importance - I want to dig up a casque myself and there is always the slimmest slim skin sliiiiiiiiiiiiiim chance I'm off by a few feet & it's part of the 5x3 patch that isn't paved. That has to be obvious. Plus absolutely the media thing. Why would I post the solution (again, it's not a theory - at worst in off by what 10 feet? It's gone then if I can't get there) in public? For what it's worth I've never had particularly good discussion on this board, I don't have tons of posts, but nobody had ever helped me with my theories. Some people are helpful via PM, but many are non responsive or rude. I've posted things and shown up to see evidence of prodding/digging. I've always assumed that we all keep our most promising theories either close to the vest, or in small groups. I think it's a bit haughty to come out here and pretend like this place is a magical fairyland of socialism.Why would I post my theory if I didn't need feedback on it? Did my solve not take work as well? Does telling me how much work you did diminish mine? Have you not noticed the uptick in activity here? I am not making up this media thing - there are more people here now than ever before. I liked the idea of this hunt as a group of somewhat weirdos trying to solve an old puzzle, not a Kickstarter and a guy who reads like MensHumor.com making a film. I want a casque on my mantel, that's my Only goal.

Well by all means, go get one...no seriously....just get one.

Back on topic.... Do we feel that 421T's theory holds water or not... there are key visual confirmations there correct? Is it a matter of the right bench or???

decibalnyc wrote:: Back on topic.... Do we feel that 421T's theory holds water or not... there are key visual confirmations there correct? Is it a matter of the right bench or??? 421's Boston theory should be discussed more in the V3/I11 threads. It was nice of him to share it and it helped me see there are other ways of looking/finding a prospective solution. The only thing I've liked in this image 12 discussion is the likeness to the Statue of Liberty. The visual compelling features suggest there's a window, a clock, maybe a pier clock, a Russian Orthodox church shape and a flying seabird involved. I believe V9 goes with it for a link to San Juan Island in Washington. I've manufactured most of my points of interest based on faulty premises. Oddly, that doesn't cause me to reject the location entirely. The more I read the book and lay attention to some more literal targets, the closer I think I'm getting to a place where I feel confident enough to explore in person or hopefully share with someone who wouldn't mind taking a closer look.

Xieish wrote:: I solved it tonight for sure. It's gone. I will be posting what I have of the solution eventually. It is conclusive in every way. It's been a parking lot since at least 1995. I guess I'll see if I can still get my gem. If it's unrecoverable then no one can steal it from you. If it's unrecoverable then there's no way to ever know if you're correct. EVER. So I don't understand your reasoning for not sharing. It doesn't make sense. So I'm gonna go ahead and call bs on this one. But feel free to prove me wrong.

My bad, It was a late night last night and I was in the wrong forum....too much off topic back and forth...I probably put my NY post in the Boston forum also

wk wrote:: The location is definitely in Prospect Park because the contour lines on this topo map match the swirling water at the bottom of image 12. You need to turn the book clockwise 90 degrees to compare it. hxxp://bit.ly/1wbTdCj maltedfalcon wrote:: Prospect Park sounds great. How does the verse play out to get you to the dig spot. Previously I was looking at the water at the bottom of the image... Now I am turning my attention to the surf part of the waves. This view of the waterfall shows some hidden paths nearby that might be a possibility. hxxp://binged.it/1qFIyOp But more importantly I believe the white spots depicting the surf in the image might be the location of nearby trees. I am basing this theory on the leaflet of Elizabethan Gardens which shows trees that match the stars in image 3. (13962)

wk wrote:: The location is definitely in Prospect Park because the contour lines on this topo map match the swirling water at the bottom of image 12. You need to turn the book clockwise 90 degrees to compare it. hxxp://bit.ly/1wbTdCj maltedfalcon wrote:: Prospect Park sounds great. How does the verse play out to get you to the dig spot. Previously I was looking at the water at the bottom of the image... Now I am turning my attention to the surf part of the waves. This view of the waterfall shows some hidden paths nearby that might be a possibility. hxxp://binged.it/1qFIyOp But more importantly I believe the white spots depicting the surf in the image might be the location of nearby trees. I am basing this theory on the leaflet of Elizabethan Gardens which shows trees that match the stars in image 3. (13962)

i remember when i first looked at img 12, i looked around this church, thinking cleve but had never put a verse to it. and i missed the TT in img 4,and shortly after the book was misplaced for years hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Theodo ... _Cathedral

This is how I see image 12 so far (conjoined with verse 10): > Lower left corner pictogram in the 'stained glass' is the United Nations. This lines up to the "grey giant" in verse 10. > In the folds of her dress that hang down is a lion's face – which I would place as one of the lions flanking the New York Public Library. > The head of the seagull is a Chrysler Building eagle. It's not exact, but close. So far all of these are in the same general vicinity: East 40-44th Street, east of 5th avenue. What throws me off: > The "statue of liberty" face. If this is the Statue of Liberty we are now in lower manhattan, which combined with the seagull puts us in a very different location than midtown. > The seagull – that suggests being close to the water – that would make the "path" from verse 10 perhaps a riverwalk? > The Russian or Greek Orthodox Cathedral – I was certain this was St Nicholas on E 97th street. But in the context of the other landmarks it doesn't add up logistically. > If the "grey giant" is the United Nations –  in its shadow places the "UN campus" and promendade into question. If so this access has been closed to public for some time and post-9/11 will probably not return anytime soon. Does anyone know if this area was accessible when the book was written? That is hard information to come by. a little on verse 10: > "the grey giant" might be the UN but it might be the old New York TImes building (W43rd, NY TImes aka the Grey Lady) > "the sign nearby speaks of Indies native" is Alexander Hamilton. Buried at Trinity Church in lower Manhattan. But signs of Hamilton are all over NY. One perplexing coincidence is between the Hamilton Grange (AH's historic home, located in St Nicholas park on the upper west side) and whether the outline of the russian/greek orthodox church is in fact St Nicholas Russian Orthodox Church.

This is how I see image 12 so far (conjoined with verse 10): > Lower left corner pictogram in the 'stained glass' is the United Nations. This lines up to the "grey giant" in verse 10. > In the folds of her dress that hang down is a lion's face – which I would place as one of the lions flanking the New York Public Library. > The head of the seagull is a Chrysler Building eagle. It's not exact, but close. So far all of these are in the same general vicinity: East 40-44th Street, east of 5th avenue. What throws me off: > The "statue of liberty" face. If this is the Statue of Liberty we are now in lower manhattan, which combined with the seagull puts us in a very different location than midtown. > The seagull – that suggests being close to the water – that would make the "path" from verse 10 perhaps a riverwalk? > The Russian or Greek Orthodox Cathedral – I was certain this was St Nicholas on E 97th street. But in the context of the other landmarks it doesn't add up logistically. > If the "grey giant" is the United Nations –  in its shadow places the "UN campus" and promendade into question. If so this access has been closed to public for some time and post-9/11 will probably not return anytime soon. Does anyone know if this area was accessible when the book was written? That is hard information to come by. a little on verse 10: > "the grey giant" might be the UN but it might be the old New York TImes building (W43rd, NY TImes aka the Grey Lady) > "the sign nearby speaks of Indies native" is Alexander Hamilton. Buried at Trinity Church in lower Manhattan. But signs of Hamilton are all over NY. One perplexing coincidence is between the Hamilton Grange (AH's historic home, located in St Nicholas park on the upper west side) and whether the outline of the russian/greek orthodox church is in fact St Nicholas Russian Orthodox Church.

Is everyone completely sold on Verse 10 being new york? I thought there was some discussion about Verse 6 being NYC as the reference to Edwin Booth, has anyone looked at Gramercy Park for visuals?

decibalnyc wrote:: Is everyone completely sold on Verse 10 being new york? I thought there was some discussion about Verse 6 being NYC as the reference to Edwin Booth, has anyone looked at Gramercy Park for visuals? I'm not sold on NYC being V10, but I am sold on Charleston being V6.

I'm having a problem navigating between verse and image. Do I have it correct that Image 12 was matched with verse 10? I just matched Image 12 to verse 6, but my notes are they are already matched to another. Verse 6 points directly to Gramercy park. Who and why made the initial matches? I cannot find the page at this time.

Well that post brought me to the here. Gramersy Park fits, Booths( father of Edwina) statue was erected May 1913.

Fwiw, I'm still enthusiastic/fanatical about Verse 9 going with this image. Seattle's Alki Point Statue of Liberty in connection with the RusALKI Fair Folk puzzle making use of a British poet reference to acknowledge the stalemate/frozen fire/standoff between US army (green/base) and British on nearby San Juan Island.

dellucc wrote:: I'm having a problem navigating between verse and image. Do I have it correct that Image 12 was matched with verse 10? I just matched Image 12 to verse 6, but my notes are they are already matched to another. Verse 6 points directly to Gramercy park. Who and why made the initial matches? I cannot find the page at this time. Right dellucc. There are still obviously doubts, but many believe that V6 has MORE connection to Chas than NY because of the Edwin/Edwina quote in "Abroad in America". Also, the Booth statue may (see what I did? lol) have "1913" on it, but the USS Maine's Capstan in Chas does too. Plus, Edwin Booth only had a daughter, named Edwina, I believe. Of course that gets into the argument of how the line is read... "Edwin and Edwina named after him" -read as one line, implying that two people, Edwin and Edwina were both named after "him" "Edwin(,) and Edwina named after him" -read with a separation, so that the line talks about the subject, Edwin, having one person, Edwina, named after "him". So, full circle...

The comma can be very important... like in the title of the book... "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss

animal painter wrote:: The comma can be very important... like in the title of the book... "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss Hah AP-it sure does! And that's not even adding in the line breaks!

animal painter wrote:: The comma can be very important... like in the title of the book... "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss I like cooking my family and my pets.

dellucc wrote:: I'm having a problem navigating between verse and image. Do I have it correct that Image 12 was matched with verse 10? I just matched Image 12 to verse 6, but my notes are they are already matched to another. Verse 6 points directly to Gramercy park. Who and why made the initial matches? I cannot find the page at this time. I suggested that V6 and Image 12 could be a match for Grammercy Park in an earlier forum...BUT I don't know if you live in NYC or ever have, but Gramercy Park is actually locked, and you need a key to get in. Residents surrounding the park all have a key. I toured with a band called Deadsy many many years ago. The singer Elija Blue Allman (son of Cher and Greg Allman) used to live across the street and he informed me of this...their one hit was called "The Key to Gramercy Park" I can't verify if this were still the case back in 1981 or if the locking of the park was always in effect or if it happened that way for a reason. I believe the park has actual hours where the public can visit, but I know it would be hard to dig there, unless you had the key and could go at night. Also I think 421 and TJ have a viable solution to S.C. based on V6, but then again I thought Lake Park was a lock for Image 10 until recently...until one is found somewhere we can't say for certain that ANY of this is figured out or that the Verses and Images we all assume to mach up are correct either. It's just going to take a lot of persistence to match up visuals with the image, that are also tied to the verse. In NC the verse may be directly tied to the image with the "land by the window" verse, I think the key to all of this is to find something real in a city, that matches a visual clue as well as a clue in the verse. Look at Chicago and Cleveland to judge weather your theory makes sense...you can see how the clues were interpreted... "L sits and Left" Lincoln Sitting only yards away from the Bowman these are obvious clues. "To Congress R is known" Congress Ave. where Roosevelt University is..again there is no doubt of error, you can see the Bowman again from this location. I think with all of these we have to find the exact match for the visuals in a city and work the verse from there.

Unknown: I can't verify if this were still the case back in 1981 or if the locking of the park was always in effect or if it happened that way for a reason. I believe the park has actual hours where the public can visit, but I know it would be hard to dig there, unless you had the key and could go at night I think it has always been that way. The Park is open to the public on Christmas Eve or it seems that you can gain access to a key if you are a guest of the Gramercy Park Hotel.....Good luck digging there. Elijah Blue Allman - cool! Going to the final ABB show at the Beacon?

That is what I thought. Grammercy Park CHECK off the list. I do have a "minion" in NYC who has been working on that casque for a while, if you need scouting done in the big apple he can help...Siskel is not always stacked with free time.

Hello all. Animal painter, you know where this is. So do i. I know the exact v to dig in, just need to figure out twice as many steps. There's a park between Fort Hamilton HS and the Belt Parkway. From there you can see the clock on the HS. It's quite shocking when standing there. Who wants to go measure?

The clock at Fort Hamilton High School does not strike me as the same one in the Image. The Image only has 4 numerals, and the clock has 12. There is a band around the Fort Hamilton clock, but not in the Image. Also, the hands are different. Does anyone know if the Fort Hamilton clock that is there now, is the same one as was there in 1981?

The clock is different, but if you are going to paint an image from a picture sent to you, as JJP has done, it's close enough. IMO. But if you stand below in Shore park looking directly at the clock, from down below, you'll notice that you are standing on a v. Last time I went there, over a year ago, it was 11am. It gave me the chills. I had no shovel but if I did I would have tore it up.

Siskel/Egbert and those who have been there before. I know that McCarren park really only has the church going for it directly, but has anyone ever noticed that at the rear of the park is NYC's Automotive High School , bordered on one side completely by Nassau St? There are a few things that intrigue me about the surrounding area, but more in a "here's a dump of some stuff" not a solid theory way. Forgive me if some of this is repeat. I tried to search back for McCarren stuff but if anyone spelled it "McCarran" etc I might've missed it. This bird can be found at 911 Manhattan down the road. hxxp://i.imgur.com/WIn5XDI.jpg (of course there were Eagles in McCarran park in the past as well which we all know) This clock is actually on 3 sides of this church, and looks more familiar than I'd care to admit, but so do lots of them: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7295415 ... e0!6m1!1e1 There also used to be a clock on the McCarren pool, but lord knows when it was/wasn't there. You can just barely see it on the left of this photo. It's been restored today I believe: hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about/pa ... 2-1937.jpg And just for kicks, if you keep heading down Nassau you very quickly bump into a small park that has a War Memorial statue. The statue has both arms outstretched and is holding a Palm Frond in her right, and a Branch in her left. https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4099/4764 ... e037_z.jpg Otherwise she bears no resemblance Sorry again if this is duped, just some stuff I hadn't seen posted before. The Automotive HS to me is actually the most compelling.

Siskel/Egbert and those who have been there before. I know that McCarren park really only has the church going for it directly, but has anyone ever noticed that at the rear of the park is NYC's Automotive High School , bordered on one side completely by Nassau St? There are a few things that intrigue me about the surrounding area, but more in a "here's a dump of some stuff" not a solid theory way. Forgive me if some of this is repeat. I tried to search back for McCarren stuff but if anyone spelled it "McCarran" etc I might've missed it. This bird can be found at 911 Manhattan down the road. hxxp://i.imgur.com/WIn5XDI.jpg (of course there were Eagles in McCarran park in the past as well which we all know) This clock is actually on 3 sides of this church, and looks more familiar than I'd care to admit, but so do lots of them: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7295415 ... e0!6m1!1e1 There also used to be a clock on the McCarren pool, but lord knows when it was/wasn't there. You can just barely see it on the left of this photo. It's been restored today I believe: hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about/pa ... 2-1937.jpg And just for kicks, if you keep heading down Nassau you very quickly bump into a small park that has a War Memorial statue. The statue has both arms outstretched and is holding a Palm Frond in her right, and a Branch in her left. https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4099/4764 ... e037_z.jpg Otherwise she bears no resemblance Sorry again if this is duped, just some stuff I hadn't seen posted before. The Automotive HS to me is actually the most compelling.

That bird can be found everywhere and has been easy to spot in at lease NYC, Philly, DC, and Hartford. It's ubiquitous among decoration of buildings in the late 19th and early 20th century.

IanH84 wrote:: That bird can be found everywhere and has been easy to spot in at lease NYC, Philly, DC, and Hartford. It's ubiquitous among decoration of buildings in the late 19th and early 20th century. But we have THE Bird(s).

have we ever talked glass sidewalk vault lights hxxp://www.phosforus.com/?p=290 hxxp://untappedcities.com/2014/04/29/ci ... s-of-soho/ bird eagles, just throwing it out there hxxp://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigm ... ushingave/ https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6978368 ... e0!6m1!1e1

CW this is what I was onto a while back...I proposed that what people see as stained glass designs, looked more to me like a sidewalk or path design or something in a subway station....also I thought maybe there was a subway connection with blue line.

I followed The Secret a few years ago, but lost momentum as I wasn't near any of the potential locations. I just read through everything in this thread and the separate thread for Verse 10, and I am cautiously optimistic that the casque is across the street from Fort Hamilton. A couple of notes that I haven't seen already posted here that provide a little more evidence to that idea: 1. If you look at the top of the bird's wing and compare it to the waterline from Brooklyn Heights down to Fort Hamilton, they are a very close match. I believe that the jagged rectangles in the wing are meant to show the piers along the shore, and there is a sharp indent that almost perfectly reflects the indent just south of Red Hook. The wing also smooths off at the right point. 2. If you look at the picture of what is generally assumed to be the Russian Orthodox Cathedral in Williamsburg, you'll notice that the space between the right two spires isn't natural. I'm of the opinion that the space there is also intended to symbolize the waterfront, and the white circle at the bottom is meant as confirmation that the casque is buried there. I am headed over to that site now in order to see if there is anything that might suggest a starting point for the "steps"; I'll report back with anything notable.

Could someone in New York give us an update on the digging conditions there? Specifically, how frozen is the ground? According to Weather Underground , it's 29 degrees in the city right now, but there's going to be a warming trend over the next three days. On Monday it's supposed to get up to almost 70 degrees, with a 99% chance of rain between 2am and 5am. Unless the ground is really frozen solid and deep, it sounds to me like Monday and Tuesday would have ideal conditions for digging. Does that seem reasonable? Are there any New Yorkers on this forum who would be free those days and willing to dig? I've got a NYC solution that's shovel-ready, but I'm not exactly in the neighborhood, so I can't do the digging myself. I'd like to find someone on this forum who would attempt an excavation in a responsible way. Failing that, I'll just post the solution on the wiki and see what happens.

I can't dig this fall (preoccupied with sorting out the legal in Boston) but if Nobody is closer NY is a bus ride away if you want to wait. I'm originally a NYer so fairly Familiar with NYC. I also have 2 friends in NY who are Secret-friendly. Completely understand if you don't it'll be a while. While estimating Boston we pegged it at 2-3 more diggable weeks and my dig partner grew up using backhos in upstate NY so I trust his analysis. Since Thicydides is North of Xenophon they should be warmer

Unknown: I'd like to find someone on this forum who would attempt an excavation in a responsible way. Failing that, I'll just post the solution on the wiki and see what happens. While digging one up is the ultimate proof of a theory, it is important to note that the opposite is not necessarily true. We have to be willing to accept that some of these are long gone. A compelling theory that is consistent with the image and verse, and the two solves we already have, might be the best we are going to get. Having said that, I think there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that if your solution is compelling enough, someone is going to at the very least, probe the area. The problem with probing however, is that it's not likely to reveal much, especially for the northern casques which are very likely in pieces by now unless they were buried well below the frost line (and the two that were dug up were not). There is always a chance that someone is going to get lucky with a random hole, but the more likely scenario for digging the next one up is a responsible, organized dig, as you suggest.

I posted on the Image 12 thread before, but it doesn't appear as though it worked. I am in New York, it is not too bad out at the moment and it is supposed to get very warm over the next couple days. I am planning to visit the site of where I believe the NY casque is over the weekend, although I don't plan to dig unless I get adequate permission from the relevant authorities. I have already started a dialogue with the necessary department, and hopefully I'll be able to dig early next week. That being said, if Oregonian has an additional theory that they would like me to explore, I am more than open to doing so. I live in Brooklyn, so I can get to anywhere in the NYC area relatively easily. I am trying to avoid an "unlicensed" dig, so the potential solution would need to be under the same jurisdiction as the organization my dialogue has been with. If you are as confident as I am, I'd imagine we have the same solution.

Its interesting to look at the history of Russian immigration of Washington compared to other areas. Niche communities of Slavic peoples were prominent in West Coast communities from Seattle area to San Francisco, and NY had a heavy influx, higher in numbers but often less relative to other cultural numbers. Russian communities propagated in ways and at times that I have yet to fully understand but it seems that you can't argue Washington is a good candidate for the Russian prize.

I try to be pragmatic here, these visuals aren't necessarily eye compelling, but among few options in a sparse setting, I think the historic points of interest marked by small numbered posts all pull together for someone standing near this large glacial rock, located at the Redoubt between the camp and the distant lighthouse,

did anyone ever actually dig in fort hamilton? i am new to this hunt and i went out and bought the book. i am in new york and will be willing to help in any way i can to anyone that is out of the area. one of the thorns in my side about image 12 is why would the image clues bring us to ellis island only to lead us elsewhere. because i don't think digging is allowed on ellis island and more importantly if your are on ellis island there would be no isle to "look north toward the isle of b" has anyone ever considered the staten island side of the Vz bridge? the north shore of staten island looks similar to the bottom of the dress in image 12. just throwing sh*t out there to see what sticks lol.

Has anyone considered the bottom of the dress matching the north shore of Staten Island? It looks like a decent match to me. I am new to this board but have been researching on my own for a while. And I live in New York so if anyone needs anything from here please do ask. I don't mind going to a location to do an observation and take some pictures or check out a site for a dig.

I just got back from a 4-day trip to NYC. My wife and I spent much of the trip walking around Manhattan, from Central Park to lower Manhattan, and parts of Brooklyn. Because of the situation, I did not have freedom to choose the walking route I would have preferred, but it was a great visit, and I got to see some of the locations, buildings, etc. we've discussed on Q4T. I pretended to be listening to conversation with the friends we were visiting, but really I was scrutinizing every architectural detail for signs of something familiar. No hits, but here are some pictures from the visit, in case you want to see some of these places from ground level very recently. The first 6 are from Washington Square Park, which was crazy crowded: The next 6 are all from the Brooklyn side of the Brooklyn Bridge:

I just got back from a 4-day trip to NYC. My wife and I spent much of the trip walking around Manhattan, from Central Park to lower Manhattan, and parts of Brooklyn. Because of the situation, I did not have freedom to choose the walking route I would have preferred, but it was a great visit, and I got to see some of the locations, buildings, etc. we've discussed on Q4T. I pretended to be listening to conversation with the friends we were visiting, but really I was scrutinizing every architectural detail for signs of something familiar. No hits, but here are some pictures from the visit, in case you want to see some of these places from ground level very recently. The first 6 are from Washington Square Park , which was crazy crowded: The next 6 are all from the Brooklyn side of the Brooklyn Bridge:

Very nice pics. Thank you.

forest_blight wrote:: p. 23. The Russian fairies' meeting the Mohicans is another link between Image 12 and New York Unknown: Leshy and Vily, from the forests of Muscovy, instructed the Mohicans in woodcraft, teaching them to move silently and invisibly through the trees - a skill which (learned authorities say) the Mohicans possessed to the Last. I'm puzzled by the capitalisation of "Last". Maybe this is a hint for "The Last of the Mohicans" by James Fenimore Cooper. Fenimore is close to Brooklyn's Prospect Park.

forest_blight wrote:: p. 23. The Russian fairies' meeting the Mohicans is another link between Image 12 and New York Unknown: Leshy and Vily, from the forests of Muscovy, instructed the Mohicans in woodcraft, teaching them to move silently and invisibly through the trees - a skill which (learned authorities say) the Mohicans possessed to the Last. I'm puzzled by the capitalisation of "Last". Maybe this is a hint for "The Last of the Mohicans" by James Fenimore Cooper. Fenimore is close to Brooklyn's Prospect Park .

Now thats a wacky sentence. I also would be tempted to think the capitalization leads to the book title relating to Mohicans, but the context stems from their learning "woodcraft". Could be this is a hint to think of carving a wooden last (bootmaking). Its standard practice to capitilize common nouns in German. It could be that Leshy and Villy are helping us to see some connection to das Boot.

Have you read "Last of the Mohicans" Its obvious this is the link, the book goes on in depth about the woodcraft and woodlore and skills of the mohicans passed down from father to sun and mother to daughter.

Embarrassing...i dont remember anything but I know I read it. Now it makes more sense, thanks.

This is the exact type of clue he left for Hermann Park with the Pierre quote. wilhouse

This is the exact type of clue he left for Hermann Park with the Pierre quote. wilhouse

Unknown: Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native Re: Prospect Park , maybe the sign could have been on a plant in the Brooklyn Botanic Garden. (The Shakespeare garden might connect with "him of Hard word", though it's not obvious how.) (To recap, Prospect Park also has an eagle on the Dongan Oak monument, a replica Liberty at the Brooklyn Museum, and a location due south of Belmont Island.)

Unknown: Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native Re: Prospect Park, maybe the sign could have been on a plant in the Brooklyn Botanic Garden. (The Shakespeare garden might connect with "him of Hard word", though it's not obvious how.) (To recap, Prospect Park also has an eagle on the Dongan Oak monument, a replica Liberty at the Brooklyn Museum, and a location due south of Belmont Island.)

I took the ferry out to Staten Island a few weekends ago and got really strong feelings on the trip. Starting at the WWII eagle memorial in Battery Park , the myriad giant waterfront clocks visible from the harbor, past Ellis, Bedloe, and Governor's islands, and then past the old lighthouse in the harbor that has coloring similar to the left-center window panel. Once at St. George terminal, I wandered over to the lighthouse museum and learned some cool stuff. At this point I stumbled upon something exciting (at the time): from the middle of one branch of the viaduct (the V?) there was a pedestrian bridge east that led to a large steel lighthouse sculpture. It was old and boarded up, and the bridge fenced off, but I could see along the pedestrian bridge were the words to a poem by Wallace Stevens. Very BP, I thought. Maybe he's the rhapsodic man? Or the man of hard words? The lighthouse had 4 stories, and the bridge led to the third. Maybe that's why we can take 22 steps "or more"--steps UP! I looked down at the soil, then north at the Statue of Liberty. I went home really excited and tried to firm up the find. In the process, I learned that the lighthouse sculpture was built in the mid-90s.

I took the ferry out to Staten Island a few weekends ago and got really strong feelings on the trip. Starting at the WWII eagle memorial in Battery Park, the myriad giant waterfront clocks visible from the harbor, past Ellis, Bedloe, and Governor's islands, and then past the old lighthouse in the harbor that has coloring similar to the left-center window panel. Once at St. George terminal, I wandered over to the lighthouse museum and learned some cool stuff. At this point I stumbled upon something exciting (at the time): from the middle of one branch of the viaduct (the V?) there was a pedestrian bridge east that led to a large steel lighthouse sculpture. It was old and boarded up, and the bridge fenced off, but I could see along the pedestrian bridge were the words to a poem by Wallace Stevens. Very BP, I thought. Maybe he's the rhapsodic man? Or the man of hard words? The lighthouse had 4 stories, and the bridge led to the third. Maybe that's why we can take 22 steps "or more"--steps UP! I looked down at the soil, then north at the Statue of Liberty. I went home really excited and tried to firm up the find. In the process, I learned that the lighthouse sculpture was built in the mid-90s.

I returned to SI the following day (I love the ferry ride), and while I got the same "right track" feeling, I didn't see much else the second trip. I checked out the courthouse, and while the lion sculpture was there, there wasn't much else in the way of visuals. I meant to check out Barrett Triangle, but forgot. I spent a lot of time walking up to Curtis High School (est. 1904). Why? Their mascot used to be the Indians (natives still speak of him of Hard word?). George Curtis was an author. He wrote three volumes of "Essays From the Easy Chair" where he actually writes from the POV of a chair. He also has a couple books on the Howadji (sounds like Hard word?) Haven't gotten much further on George Curtis, but he writes a lot of poetry, speaks often of the Fay (at least in his book "Lotus-Eating"), and has written essays on many of the other people I've run across while researching the other 11 casques.

I'm thinking the thematic overtones of this picture involve a sense of gravity. The woman is floating/defying gravity. She has a few water drops floating with her. The word "drop" taken in a different sense implies gravity.

Frisco wrote:: Haven't gotten much further on George Curtis, but he writes a lot of poetry, speaks often of the Fay (at least in his book "Lotus-Eating"), and has written essays on many of the other people I've run across while researching the other 11 casques. Good research. You have a good starting point, there are a lot of matches in that area of lower Manhattan in image and verse. Getting on a boat doesn't see the way to go...remember "Ride the man of oz" was a pretty specific clue to take a boat, we don't see that here. I could be totally wrong, just making an observation. Good work tho!

Unknown: remember "Ride the man of oz" was a pretty specific clue to take a boat Except the only people who were going to Roanoke Island by boat in 1981 were fishermen. The ferries that you are alluding to were out of commission, having been replaced by bridges several decades earlier. So, I'm pretty certain that "ride" in this context just means "drive", given that it is 16 miles from the Wright Memorial (the two friends of Octave) to Fort Raleigh (Dark Forest).

decibalnyc wrote:: Good research. You have a good starting point, there are a lot of matches in that area of lower Manhattan in image and verse. Getting on a boat doesn't see the way to go...remember "Ride the man of oz" was a pretty specific clue to take a boat, we don't see that here. I could be totally wrong, just making an observation. Good work tho! Curtis High School is in Staten Island, so a boat would be necessary. Unless the "gray giant" we start at is the Verrazano. I don't think BP is always overt with his travel suggestions. I'm not entirely off of Manhattan being a possibility, though--it's just that you can't really gaze north at an "isle of B" from Battery Park .

decibalnyc wrote:: Good research. You have a good starting point, there are a lot of matches in that area of lower Manhattan in image and verse. Getting on a boat doesn't see the way to go...remember "Ride the man of oz" was a pretty specific clue to take a boat, we don't see that here. I could be totally wrong, just making an observation. Good work tho! Curtis High School is in Staten Island, so a boat would be necessary. Unless the "gray giant" we start at is the Verrazano. I don't think BP is always overt with his travel suggestions. I'm not entirely off of Manhattan being a possibility, though--it's just that you can't really gaze north at an "isle of B" from Battery Park.

Frisco wrote:: ...it's just that you can't really gaze north at an "isle of B" from Battery Park . Or can you?

Frisco wrote:: ...it's just that you can't really gaze north at an "isle of B" from Battery Park. Or can you?

One can gaze *toward* any island from anywhere, I suppose. But if we're talking Belmont Island to the northeast, across the entire island of Manhattan, it seems like there would be better landmarks to use if the intent was to get someone gazing in that direction. Manhattan isn't exactly north-oriented, so aligning oneself toward Belmont Island from Battery Park would be nigh impossible, even for someone who knew exactly where it was. It just feels wrong to me. YMMV, of course. If someone finds some strong matches to Manhattan, I wouldn't ignore that, but until then I'll continue to look in Georgie's soil.

One can gaze *toward* any island from anywhere, I suppose. But if we're talking Belmont Island to the northeast, across the entire island of Manhattan, it seems like there would be better landmarks to use if the intent was to get someone gazing in that direction. Manhattan isn't exactly north-oriented, so aligning oneself toward Belmont Island from Battery Park would be nigh impossible, even for someone who knew exactly where it was. It just feels wrong to me. YMMV, of course. If someone finds some strong matches to Manhattan, I wouldn't ignore that, but until then I'll continue to look in Georgie's soil.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Or can you? Yes....Puzzling :-)

decibalnyc wrote:: Yes....Puzzling :-) Or, as I suggested in the Image 9 thread... we may have to consider alternate verses. Hell, look back at all of the "facts" and read the threads about what image/verse pairs there were prior to the Cleveland solve. The Conventional wisdom isn't always spot on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFIBwS0GVX0

Merlot Brougham wrote:: ...the Statue of Liberty is "obviously" a red herring... Unknown: Bryon Preiss gives you an exact match of the birds on the Ferry Building terminal on Ellis Island that several people missed on their trips to Ellis Island. Must mean it's buried at Fort Hamilton, or somewhere on Staten Island, right? Merlot Brougham wrote:: ...we may have to consider alternate verses... OK, OK. It's NYC. (But I still say the book contains misdirection. Fact.) Other puzzles have clues that are just as widely separated. (Eg, "Dark forest" / "Dauntless and inconquerable"). So, yeah, possibly. Definitely. The jury's still out on several pairings IMHO.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: OK, OK. It's NYC. (But I still say the book contains misdirection. Fact.) Other puzzles have clues that are just as widely separated. (Eg, "Dark forest" / "Dauntless and inconquerable"). So, yeah, possibly. Definitely. The jury's still out on several pairings IMHO. What if the Isle of B. Is the Pitcher's mound on a baseball diamond? Does this seem to work?

A moment ago I was saying how great the wiki looked in terms of organization. Now I have my doubts. Oregonian, the new chief editor, says this image with V10 has been solved as of Oct 19th. I dont see any reports of a casque recovery though. He also makes a point that Q4T has nothing to do with the discovery. Does anyone know anything about this solve?

No, he's very secretive about it. I live in NYC and have been asking, and he won't say more than is on the wiki. Personally, I don't think it's been located. It's definitely not been unearthed.

unfortunately the wiki was taken over by someone who feels they know best about possible solves, if you try and post solutions that don't match his pet theories, he deletes them. He also then posts possible solutions as fact which actively discourage, people from considering original ideas. To read the wiki you would think several casques are moments away from simply being dug up because the exact solutions are known... He makes it sound like there is a consensus and group of people actively working under his guidance. Its kind of sad really.

maltedfalcon wrote:: unfortunately the wiki was taken over by someone who feels they know best about possible solves, if you try and post solutions that don't match his pet theories, he deletes them. He also then posts possible solutions as fact which actively discourage, people from considering original ideas. To read the wiki you would think several casques are moments away from simply being dug up because the exact solutions are known... He makes it sound like there is a consensus and group of people actively working under his guidance. Its kind of sad really. Agreed. Also recognize that is the first place people end up when they first do an internet search on The Secret. I know we throw around terms like "consensus" quite a bit, but I have no idea where some of the "facts" on the wiki come from. edit: "Currently narrowed down to a single tree In Hoboken. Case closed" - The Secret Wiki. Who had that detailed spreadsheet saying it was 99% certain Cask 9 was buried on the grounds of Olympic Stadium in Montreal? Upload that to the wiki. Consensus is based upon who shouts the loudest and has the prettiest spreadsheets.

I think my latest edit to the wiki is going to get my privileges revoked. (just modified the 7th bullet point)

Frisco wrote:: I think my latest edit to the wiki is going to get my privileges revoked. (just modified the 7th bullet point) Nice. We all exist in a fog of preconceptions.

SOLVED Verse 10 and Image 12. Hi all, Verse 10 and Image 12 has been solved by [email protected] Here is the word document which describes everything about verse 10 and image 12: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3 ... ile%2cdocx Thanks.

For info, someone just posted up these image 12 notes on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 8563372090

Oh goody just in time for the holidays, another hoax.

Oh please. "Solved"? Color me skeptical.

Now to be fair, he is from a foreign country, Some United Kingdom or other. English is probably his second language... He probably doesn't understand the difference between the concepts of a theory and a solution.

forest_blight wrote:: Oh please. "Solved"? Color me skeptical. I feel like even erexere would look at his work and say "don't you think that's a little convoluted ?"

Heresy. Brooklyn FTW! Represent! Viva le VaterWiki!

Warning: rabbit hole I was doing some mindless poking around the NYC casque when I decided to look for some specific imagery related to the figure in the wave (M7-8). To me, it looks like the figure of a person kissing the ground, but others have noted the similarity to a buffalo. Somehow, I stumbled across a monument that was to have been built in the Fort Wadsworth/Fort Tompkins area, literally in the shadow of the Verrazano Bridge, and across the Narrows from Fort Hamilton: It was to be even taller than the Statue of Liberty (being built on a bluff overlooking the Narrows), and it looks like it was going to have two buffalo statues. I thought it was interesting that the Native American statue was posed with two fingers extended, much like a "peace sign" or "V for Victory" (though in the image it looks like he's flipping us off). Maybe because I have too much Churchill on my mind. But I keep coming across the themes of Peace and/or Victory in these puzzles. So maybe the natives speak of someone related to this proposed monument? Tompkins? Wanamaker (the monument was his proposal)? Taft (dedicated the site)? There was even a politician by the name of Nathan Scott who opposed the monument. More info.

Hey everyone! Renner here. So I was in the city a couple days ago and on my way to Newark airport, I saw a sign for Liberty State Park. On a whim, I decided I'd check it out. I'm really excited about this location for a couple reasons, but mostly, because you can see the onion domes, the statue, and the Verrazano Bridge quite well from directly behind Lady Liberty (in the shadow of the grey giant). Also, near this abandoned nature center, I found what could be interpreted as an arm (little roof extension) over a slender path. The path led into the woods a bit but I couldn't find much back there, unless he meant a field of reeds (marked by a plaque) as "rhapsodic soil". Anyway, I thought I'd share some photographs. Wonder if there was more here in 1982. Link to imgur album. hxxp://imgur.com/a/fESsh

I'm new to the forum, but I live in NYC and will be happy to visit locations and take pictures! :-)

Not sure if this has been posted before. St. Paul the Apostle Church window, near Columbus Circle, NYC

Hi all. I kind of wish I had never heard about this game, because now I have been obsessively scouring NYC maps for clues. I have read every page of this thread; it's fascinating the kinds of ideas that people have had over the last decade. I wonder how many of these casques haven't been dug up accidentally or destroyed. Anyway, I like your stained glass window find, Egbert. You know, if you walk a few blocks uptown from there you will find: Dante, of course, may have written the most important three-volume work of Western literature, the Divine Comedy. Early on in which we see: ...Though who knows whether that's a phrase that's universal in the translations. I don't think that this actually leads anywhere, as if you go 22 steps east there's nothing but buildings. On the other hand, Lincoln Center is right across the street from this park... so I have to figure around here would be rhapsodic man's soil, no? I may visit this area next week to check it out from ground level, though I don't have high hopes.

Dante's Park is an interesting find. I like the 3 volumes. Looking at a map, you are at a "V" intersection, and you can look North toward the aisle of Broadway. Don't forget, Hard word is capitalized in the Verse, so I think that word has more significance than just appearing in print.

Egbert wrote:: Dante's Park is an interesting find. I like the 3 volumes. Looking at a map, you are at a "V" intersection, and you can look North toward the aisle of Broadway. Don't forget, Hard word is capitalized in the Verse, so I think that word has more significance than just appearing in print. I agree, just kind of brainstorming with the "Hard word" thing. That seems like it's going to be the hardest part of the verse to parse. And it might just be the kind of clue where it's completely useless until you're at ground level, see something that reveals a play on words, and say "oh..." Also: I took a trip out to Staten Island (hadn't been there in fifteen years!) to take a look at Snug Harbor. I liked the St. George reference in the waves, there's a music hall there with an arch similar to that on the image, if you look north you can see the isle of Bayonne, and there's a Hamilton Ave nearby. But I didn't see anything that fit the other clues and it seemed a little too far off the beaten path to have been a hiding spot. Nice place to visit, though. BTW, one thing I feel confident in saying as a result of the trip: if the casque was hidden somewhere near the northeast shore of Staten Island, it's gone . The whole area has been or is in the process of being redeveloped and the sheer amount of dirt being moved around means that 1981 reference points, if not the prize itself, have been destroyed. I have a few more shots in the dark to pursue and will try to update within the next few weeks. Even if I don't get anywhere I'll try to take pictures. Maybe they'll help someone recognize something.

Jewel: Topaz Fair Folk: Russian (Rus-alki) Likeness of the Statue of Liberty in NY: check Shape detail similar to Manhatten, NY: check Interestingly a Statue of Liberty is located in Alki Point, WA (Seattle). A year or two prior to the City being called Seattle the name claim on the land was a competition between "Duwamps" and "New York Alki". I continue to like the "Alki" and "Rusalki" connection and the proximity to Russia that the Seattle area represent.

Has anyone ever checked out Sunset Park in Brooklyn? It's a lovely park that provides a bit of unique perspective for this image. It's up on a hill so when you're standing in in the right spot of the hill you get a great view of Manhattan and the river. You can see The Statue Of Liberty, Ellis Island, and all the skyscrapers. I visited Sunset Park once and the grey rectangle with the red outline reminded me of a slight reddish orange glow the skyscrapers got around them as the sun sets. I have to figure when the World Trade Centers were standing they would probably look a bit like the grey rectangle with the red outline at sunset. So if you're on the hill you can see three things referenced in the painting.

What if this is Niagara Falls/Goat Island? The grey giant would be the falls itself. The waves at the bottom of the picture don't make me think of a harbor, water yes, harbor no. "Indies Native" would really be native indians-which we know for sure they were on the island and there is even a native indian statue in the state park. The woman's dress is the shape of Goat Island and there is a set of 3 island next to Goat Island called the 3 Sister Island, which could be represented as the three jewels in the picture. They aren't in the same place on the map but they are all different sizes, just like the picture. The summer whirring sound would be the falls because in the winter it is less loud because sometimes some of it freezes-not all of it though (except once). The bird (eagle) could mean look towards the USA side at the state park. The Isle of B could be Bird Island. That's all I got so far.

I was in Manhattan a couple of weeks ago, and randomly found myself walking by the entrance to the children's zoo in Central Park. There was talk some time ago about the Delacorte Clock bear appearing the foam in P12. That may be true. I was unable to get a clear shot of him, but decided to post these anyway:

nice pictures. i see the bell in the image, I also see a dog or some sort of animal within the clouds.

Did Preiss directly say that it wasn't in Central Park?

Yes. Years ago when asked, he definitively wrote in an email reply that there was no casque buried in Central Park .

Yes. Years ago when asked, he definitively wrote in an email reply that there was no casque buried in Central Park.

Does anyone know if the "accepted" solution is that it's under a tree in front of Fort Hamilton HS in Brooklyn, NY? I want to go by there and take some pictures if so because the google maps street view is a bit old and hard to see small details.

kittykatz wrote:: Does anyone know if the "accepted" solution is that it's under a tree in front of Fort Hamilton HS in Brooklyn, NY? I want to go by there and take some pictures if so because the google maps street view is a bit old and hard to see small details. I don't think there are any generally accepted solutions to any of the unsolved casques, though I like that area. Although the parks have changed so much, I still think it's possible someone might spot a previously unrecognised shape in one of the images that will help pinpoint a location.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I don't think there are any generally accepted solutions to any of the unsolved casques, though I like that area. Although the parks have changed so much, I still think it's possible someone might spot a previously unrecognised shape in one of the images that will help pinpoint a location. Very true. I'm thinking of posting to Fort Hamilton alumni Facebook groups with little cropped pictures of the various window tiles and aspects of the dress and asking if anything looks familiar in that park area. I'm wondering if the black posts that had the lights were different than the ones in NYC today, but I don't think they are because there are un-renovated parks from around that time with the same style of posts.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I don't think there are any generally accepted solutions to any of the unsolved casques, though I like that area. Although the parks have changed so much, I still think it's possible someone might spot a previously unrecognised shape in one of the images that will help pinpoint a location. Very true. I'm thinking of posting to Fort Hamilton alumni Facebook groups with little cropped pictures of the various window tiles and aspects of the dress and asking if anything looks familiar in that park area. I'm wondering if the black posts that had the lights were different than the ones in NYC today, but I don't think they are because there are un-renovated parks from around that time with the same style of posts.

Has anyone looked into Greenwood Cemetery? It has a chapel there that looks like the Russian style buildings ( hxxp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YUjfDJkJL70/U ... G_8211.jpg ). It's also right next to the Ft. hamilton parkway subway stop (that has been there for a very long time - there are 2 so make sure you're looking at the right one.)

We probably shouldn't be digging in cemeteries.

This is my original comparison of the bear and the foamy creature in image 12. But we know that the casque is not in the park ... so it is only a verifying image for NYC. AP

This is my original comparison of the bear and the foamy creature in image 12. But we know that the casque is not in the park ... so it is only a verifying image for NYC. AP

Has it ever been considered that the mosaics in this image are meant to evoke the unique tiles at many subway stations in New York? Perhaps if one could find a station that had patterns that matched the ones in the image you would know that you were near the casque. Or perhaps they are a little map of sorts. Start at a station with a certain kind of tiles and ride the subway passing stations with tiles like you see in the image. This is what I'm referring to with subway tiles. I don't think any station has the exact same pattern as another so finding a match would mean combing through every station.

Okay, let's have a little fun in New York. I have come up with a solve that I have not seen anywhere before. I know a lot of you are involved on the other side of the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge. I'm in Staten Island. VERSE 10 In the shadow - close to Of the Grey giant - Fort Wadsworth I first thought this could be the Statue of Liberty but she's not grey. Then I realized the "G" was capitalized and the spelling was British and not American, gray. The Grey Giant is Fort Wadsworth, not the SOL or Verrazano-Narrows Bridge. Find the arm that - Clarence T. Barrett's right arm Extends over the slender path - narrow set of stairs The set of stairs is just to the left in this photo. hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 In summer You'll often hear a whirring sound - Helicopter tours common during summertime I agree with the Wiki on this point. Cars abound - Traffic on Bay Street next to Clarence Barrett Triangle Although the sign - A sign about the Wanamaker Indian Memorial to be built Nearby - Fort Tompkins inside Fort Wadsworth Speaks of Indies native - American Indian https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxhist=0 The natives still speak - Staten Islanders Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols. - Clarence T. Barrett The Memorial Statue of Clarence T. Barrett which sits in the Barrett Triangle was donated by Julia Oliva HARDIN who was the trustee for Barrett's wife Anna. So Julia Hardin is the "Hard" in this line of the verse. The part "word in 3 Vols." refers to Barrett being a volunteer. At the time of the Civil War he volunteered for the 175 New York Volunteers Regiment. After that he became a Captain of the United States Volunteers. Once the war was over he wanted to get back to public service and was Police Commisioner and then a Superintendent for the Poor. Take twice as many east steps as the hour - The hour on the clock is 11:00 so take 22 steps Or more - depending on your stride could be more than 22 steps From the middle of one branch - The Northern part of the Barrett statue base Of the v - The Barrett Memorial has a Triangular marble base with a water fountain on the backside Look down And see simple roots - Landscaping with bushes on the right In rhapsodic man's soil - Clarence Barrett Triangle Or gaze north - look North Toward the isle of B. - towards Liberty Island Basically saying if you look North, you wont' see anything to dig, just sidewalk and street. IMAGE 12 ------------------ Let's get the obvious out of the way. The bird is the Ellis Island stone bird as indicated by Wiki. The Statue of Liberty goes without saying. As for the window, the colored dots seem to represent reflections of common things in New York. The lighter blue dots being the sky, darker blue dots being the Upper Bay, and the redish dots being the Red Sandstone buildings around the area. This is the backside of the Clarence Barrett Memorial: hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 It is important because from this angle you can see the St. George Library across the street. This is where the statue was located originally until moved to the triangle. Notice the windows on the Library that are similar to the one in Image 12. Also notice the purple color above the tan color in one of the window images behind the seagull. This is representing the two different colors of the Library building itself, although not completely matched in color this is what I believe it to be. The bottom left window sure looks like one of the World Trade Center Towers to me. Could be one of the Towers of Verazzano-Narrows Bridge. The one next to that is the Main Building at Ellis Island. The window behind the SOL head is basically dead air, nothing important. I have not been able to find a clock that looks exactly like this one but here is the clock across the street from the Barrett Statue: hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 There is a clock on the East and West sides of that Tower which can be seen from the Barrett Triangle. This is the Staten Island Borough Hall: https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxhist=0 Why I looked to this area in the first place. If you line up the Ellis Island Seagull face with the Statue of Liberty and run a line down thru the jewel in Image 12 you would continue on to Staten Island on a map. If you turn her upside down you can see the resemblance of Staten Island in the SOL's garment. Then I started looking around in the streets for the "Tiger/Lion/Mask" face in SOL's garment. I looked at buildings, boats, anything on the street that resembled artwork and out of nowhere I saw this: hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 The bottom of the Memorial for Clarence Barrett jumped out at me. I covered the bottom part of the mouth hole with my finger and realized I had it, the image on her garment. One thing led to another and I realized I had my solve. The SOL's garments have the same qualities of Clarence Barrett's warrior garment. Her arms out stretched are making a triangular shape from her head to her hands and this is important because it signifies the shape of the base of the Barrett Memorial pedestal. The Wave This was the coolest realization of all, the Wave in Image 12 is a Bus Stop Shelter on Bay Street on the other side of the Barrett Triangle. And the stairs to the rightside of the Bus Shelter are the "slender path" in Verse 10. hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 The Clarence Barrett statue is on the other side of this bus shelter. And as you can see in Image 12 the jewel is above the Wave so this lets us know that the casque is buried above the wave. So as you look at this angle of the Barrett Triangle, the stairs are to the left. Barrett is pointing to the North. hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 If you stand at the back left side of the statue, that "v" is your starting point. Go 22 steps East or more. The or more comes from the fact that the stairs are long and flat, some people may take long strides and get there in 22 steps while others will be careful on the longer steps and take shorter strides resulting in the "Or more". The bottom stair will bring you to the edge of the landscape bed that is at the back of the Barrett Triangle and essentially on top of the Wave ( Bus Stop shelter ). Look down to see simple roots. Simple roots are the landscaped bushes and also simple roots represents a cool fact about Clarence Barrett. At one time he operated a plant nursery at what is now known as the Clarence T. Barrett Park Zoo. He was definitely a rhapsodic man as he was enthusiastic in much of his life. And of course if you look away from the dig spot you would be gazing to the North where there is sidewalks, streets and buildings. To really get a good look at my solve go into google earth and check out Clarence Barrett Triangle on Staten Island. It will show much more detail than I can find in photos. Enjoy... Go get it NY diggers, best of luck if you decide to check it out.

Okay, let's have a little fun in New York. I have come up with a solve that I have not seen anywhere before. I know a lot of you are involved on the other side of the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge. I'm in Staten Island. VERSE 10 In the shadow - close to Of the Grey giant - Fort Wadsworth I first thought this could be the Statue of Liberty but she's not grey. Then I realized the "G" was capitalized and the spelling was British and not American, gray. The Grey Giant is Fort Wadsworth, not the SOL or Verrazano-Narrows Bridge. Find the arm that - Clarence T. Barrett's right arm Extends over the slender path - narrow set of stairs The set of stairs is just to the left in this photo. hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 In summer You'll often hear a whirring sound - Helicopter tours common during summertime I agree with the Wiki on this point. Cars abound - Traffic on Bay Street next to Clarence Barrett Triangle Although the sign - A sign about the Wanamaker Indian Memorial to be built Nearby - Fort Tompkins inside Fort Wadsworth Speaks of Indies native - American Indian https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxhist=0 The natives still speak - Staten Islanders Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols. - Clarence T. Barrett The Memorial Statue of Clarence T. Barrett which sits in the Barrett Triangle was donated by Julia Oliva HARDIN who was the trustee for Barrett's wife Anna. So Julia Hardin is the "Hard" in this line of the verse. The part "word in 3 Vols." refers to Barrett being a volunteer. At the time of the Civil War he volunteered for the 175 New York Volunteers Regiment. After that he became a Captain of the United States Volunteers. Once the war was over he wanted to get back to public service and was Police Commisioner and then a Superintendent for the Poor. Take twice as many east steps as the hour - The hour on the clock is 11:00 so take 22 steps Or more - depending on your stride could be more than 22 steps From the middle of one branch - The Northern part of the Barrett statue base Of the v - The Barrett Memorial has a Triangular marble base with a water fountain on the backside Look down And see simple roots - Landscaping with bushes on the right In rhapsodic man's soil - Clarence Barrett Triangle Or gaze north - look North Toward the isle of B. - towards Liberty Island Basically saying if you look North, you wont' see anything to dig, just sidewalk and street. IMAGE 12 ------------------ Let's get the obvious out of the way. The bird is the Ellis Island stone bird as indicated by Wiki. The Statue of Liberty goes without saying. As for the window, the colored dots seem to represent reflections of common things in New York. The lighter blue dots being the sky, darker blue dots being the Upper Bay, and the redish dots being the Red Sandstone buildings around the area. This is the backside of the Clarence Barrett Memorial: hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 It is important because from this angle you can see the St. George Library across the street. This is where the statue was located originally until moved to the triangle. Notice the windows on the Library that are similar to the one in Image 12. Also notice the purple color above the tan color in one of the window images behind the seagull. This is representing the two different colors of the Library building itself, although not completely matched in color this is what I believe it to be. The bottom left window sure looks like one of the World Trade Center Towers to me. Could be one of the Towers of Verazzano-Narrows Bridge. The one next to that is the Main Building at Ellis Island. The window behind the SOL head is basically dead air, nothing important. I have not been able to find a clock that looks exactly like this one but here is the clock across the street from the Barrett Statue: hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 There is a clock on the East and West sides of that Tower which can be seen from the Barrett Triangle. This is the Staten Island Borough Hall: https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxhist=0 Why I looked to this area in the first place. If you line up the Ellis Island Seagull face with the Statue of Liberty and run a line down thru the jewel in Image 12 you would continue on to Staten Island on a map. If you turn her upside down you can see the resemblance of Staten Island in the SOL's garment. Then I started looking around in the streets for the "Tiger/Lion/Mask" face in SOL's garment. I looked at buildings, boats, anything on the street that resembled artwork and out of nowhere I saw this: hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 The bottom of the Memorial for Clarence Barrett jumped out at me. I covered the bottom part of the mouth hole with my finger and realized I had it, the image on her garment. One thing led to another and I realized I had my solve. The SOL's garments have the same qualities of Clarence Barrett's warrior garment. Her arms out stretched are making a triangular shape from her head to her hands and this is important because it signifies the shape of the base of the Barrett Memorial pedestal. The Wave This was the coolest realization of all, the Wave in Image 12 is a Bus Stop Shelter on Bay Street on the other side of the Barrett Triangle. And the stairs to the rightside of the Bus Shelter are the "slender path" in Verse 10. hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 The Clarence Barrett statue is on the other side of this bus shelter. And as you can see in Image 12 the jewel is above the Wave so this lets us know that the casque is buried above the wave. So as you look at this angle of the Barrett Triangle, the stairs are to the left. Barrett is pointing to the North. hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 If you stand at the back left side of the statue, that "v" is your starting point. Go 22 steps East or more. The or more comes from the fact that the stairs are long and flat, some people may take long strides and get there in 22 steps while others will be careful on the longer steps and take shorter strides resulting in the "Or more". The bottom stair will bring you to the edge of the landscape bed that is at the back of the Barrett Triangle and essentially on top of the Wave ( Bus Stop shelter ). Look down to see simple roots. Simple roots are the landscaped bushes and also simple roots represents a cool fact about Clarence Barrett. At one time he operated a plant nursery at what is now known as the Clarence T. Barrett Park Zoo. He was definitely a rhapsodic man as he was enthusiastic in much of his life. And of course if you look away from the dig spot you would be gazing to the North where there is sidewalks, streets and buildings. To really get a good look at my solve go into google earth and check out Clarence Barrett Triangle on Staten Island. It will show much more detail than I can find in photos. Enjoy... Go get it NY diggers, best of luck if you decide to check it out.

Fun solve! Why is Fort Wadsworth a gray giant?

wow! That is very thorough.

drunknerds wrote:: Fun solve! Why is Fort Wadsworth a gray giant? I agree with you, nice fun solve. Why is Fort Wadsworth important and why is it the grey giant? Doesn't look too giant to me.

gManTexas wrote:: I agree with you, nice fun solve. Why is Fort Wadsworth important and why is it the grey giant? Doesn't look too giant to me. It was a good read, nice try, but i find it to be highly unlikely. Does not match the theme of the puzzle and its historical figures, and the same mistake is being made where the whole verse revolves around one figure, and he is of low importance, even to Staten Island.

drunknerds wrote:: Fun solve! Why is Fort Wadsworth a gray giant? It is a Grey giant because of the 226 acres it covered and was largely constructed of masonry before the era of red stone started being used at military installations. The British took over the Fort in 1776. And what is known today as Fort Wadsworth was first fortified by the British in 1779. They held this prime defensive location for the rest of the Revolutionary War. That is why I believe the word Grey is spelled with the British version in the Verse. Also of note, Bay Street runs from Fort Wadsworth passed the Clarence Barrett Triangle.

gManTexas wrote:: I agree with you, nice fun solve. Why is Fort Wadsworth important and why is it the grey giant? Doesn't look too giant to me. It is not Important to the solve or puzzle but very important to our country's history and to Staten Island. And as I mentioned in the other response it covers a great deal of land on both sides of Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, 226 acres. It also is connected to the Barrett Triangle via Bay Street.

NYCNative wrote:: It was a good read, nice try, but i find it to be highly unlikely. Does not match the theme of the puzzle and its historical figures, and the same mistake is being made where the whole verse revolves around one figure, and he is of low importance, even to Staten Island. Until someone digs up the casque we will never know. I'm curious as to why you think it's highly unlikely. Don't you want to ride the Barrett Wave with me? What is the theme of the puzzle in your opinion? From what I've studied, Barrett is a significant historical figure in Staten Island history who has not been highly recognized. All I can say is what I've said before, if our NY diggers don't find it in my dig spot, I hope they find it in yours...good luck.

MrBackstop wrote:: It is a Grey giant because of the 226 acres it covered and was largely constructed of masonry before the era of red stone started being used at military installations. The British took over the Fort in 1776. And what is known today as Fort Wadsworth was first fortified by the British in 1779. They held this prime defensive location for the rest of the Revolutionary War. That is why I believe the word Grey is spelled with the British version in the Verse. The logic is sound, but like many clues it can be applied to a LOT of locations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... ted_States Most forts get pretty big. I assume many forts were built with gray stone. That's the underlying issue why a lot of these proposed solves don't gain much traction. There are grey giants everywhere, there are arms everywhere, etc. It's simple enough to construct a series of nearby locations that sort-of fit the clues. It's fun, too, which is another reason why this hunt is so popular. This is why spotting an exact image match in a real location gets people so excited: There are far, far fewer exact image matches than there are creative verse interpretations.

That said, I always enjoying reading a well-thought out solution

MrBackstop wrote:: I'm curious as to why you think it's highly unlikely. Don't you want to ride the Barrett Wave with me? What is the theme of the puzzle in your opinion? From what I've studied, Barrett is a significant historical figure in Staten Island history who has not been highly recognized. All I can say is what I've said before, if our NY diggers don't find it in my dig spot, I hope they find it in yours...good luck. [/quote][/quote] The problem is you seem to want the verse all to point to one figure, Barrett, even using his wife names to spell out hard, which is reaching very far. He is not at all an important figure in SI, there is really no connection from the image or verses that match with Barrett at all. Saying he was enthusiastic most of his life thus rhapsodic is also just adding to the confirmation bias. In the solves we do know we see Lincoln, Mozart, Beethoven, even possibly Louis Armstrong...all historical figures that everyone knows and that pops out to the reader. Nobody even in SI knows who Barrett is, and if you didn't google him, neither would you. Like you said, he is not highly recognized. These casques seem to be in major parks, and not just a single lonely monument out in the middle of no where. If this was 1982, you would not reference Barrett at all. The whole theory should not be revolving around one figure that has low significant historical value. Even the natives of SI wouldn't know, so how would anyone else? Like I said, nice try, good read, but highly unlikely and I wouldn't waste anytime going to SI at all!

Here is a good picture of the Wave Bus Stop before it was covered in graffiti. Go about halfway down the page and there is a side by side of the St. George Library where the original sight for the statue across the street from where it is today. The stairs coming down on the right side is where the 22 steps would lead and the dig spot is right behind the bus stop shelter on the left of the stairs. hxxp://apeshall.blogspot.com/2013/03/be ... angle.html

oK? My question would be why would St. George matter one bit? Why do you feel Barett's history has anything to do with the verse or image?

St. George doesn't matter, it was just the location Barrett's statue used to be located across the street from where it sits now. I'm just following the clues and the visual clues in the image, along with the Verse led me to the Barrett triangle. Barrett, while being insignificant to you, has a interest history in Staten Island and perhaps BP had an interest in his Barrett's story.

Josh, while I appreciate your thoughts on Gray Peak, I see the spelling of grey as an important clue. Sure BP could have just spelled it with an "e" for the hell of it but I don't think so. Let me add something to the "Barrett Wave" solve. From the middle of one branch Of the v The base of the statue on which Clarence Barret stands is made out of Pink Tennessee Marble. It has 3 branches forming a triangular base. Each backside of the base creates a "v" where the water fountain connects. From the Northeast "v", 22 steps take you to the wave (backside of the bus shelter) and the casque.

Some what random question...Has every singe signature of JJP's in the images been found?

Unknown: Some what random question... Somewhat random answer. You can't find what isn't there. Although people have been trying for over 35 years. To their detriment, IMO.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Somewhat random answer. You can't find what isn't there. Although people have been trying for over 35 years. To their detriment, IMO. So it is a fact that some images do not have his signature on them?

Unknown: So it is a fact that some images do not have his signature on them? No, that's my opinion. Everyone has access to the high-resolution Images, and they are welcome to form their own.

We know at least one painting was cropped for publication (the Roanoke suit of armor), and his sig was probably on the edge. No mystery, no clue.

catherwood wrote:: We know at least one painting was cropped for publication (the Roanoke suit of armor), and his sig was probably on the edge. No mystery, no clue. ah.

Unknown: We know at least one painting was cropped for publication We can only go by what was in the book. If the signatures were important to the puzzle, then they would have survived the editing process, or added back in before the book went to print. IMHO.

I think the most frustrating part of image 12 are those damn color dots in the window frames!! What if any are the theories on that, other then the whole color blind test theory?

Stained glass window.

erexere wrote:: Stained glass window. It doesn't really have the patterns of a stained glass window, and that would be as random as putting an image of a stop sign.

MrSeabass wrote:: Some things in the images are just there because everybody was on cocaine it looked cool back then. Seeing as we used 17 different levels of filtering ranging from comicbook 3d glasses to photoshop to determine any hidden imagery or filtration and found nothing, then I would assume that nothing is there. "Cocaine is a hell of a drug!" -Rick James (RIP) So lets just say for argument sake, I ate a whole bag of mushrooms. Will this help my image revealing experience or harm it?

NYCNative wrote:: I think the most frustrating part of image 12 are those damn color dots in the window frames!! What if any are the theories on that, other then the whole color blind test theory? I believe I heard somewhere that the artist, JJP, said that it was supposed to have some effect, but that it didn't work out so well when it went to press. I'm of the opinion that you have to manipulate the image somehow, using technology that was available in 1982. If we skip to Image 2 for a minute, the general consensus is that the skull is a reference to Edgar Allan Poe's short story The Gold Bug. In that story, there is a cipher written on a slip of paper that only appeared after the paper was subjected to the heat of a fire in the fireplace. This may be a subtle hint that we are supposed to do things to the images to reveal clues. The question is what. It seems reasonable in Image 12 to get some old school 3D glasses and look through them. Maybe some other non-destructive photo manipulation as well. Having said all that, I'm not sure that it will matter. I believe there are various ways to derive the general casque location, e.g. from mapping overlays and the descriptions in the Verses. I highly doubt that there is a message in the window frames that says something like, "The exact coordinates for the casque are..."

gManTexas wrote:: I believe I heard somewhere that the artist, JJP, said that it was supposed to have some effect, but that it didn't work out so well when it went to press. I'm of the opinion that you have to manipulate the image somehow, using technology that was available in 1982. If we skip to Image 2 for a minute, the general consensus is that the skull is a reference to Edgar Allan Poe's short story The Gold Bug. In that story, there is a cipher written on a slip of paper that only appeared after the paper was subjected to the heat of a fire in the fireplace. This may be a subtle hint that we are supposed to do things to the images to reveal clues. The question is what. It seems reasonable in Image 12 to get some old school 3D glasses and look through them. Maybe some other non-destructive photo manipulation as well. Having said all that, I'm not sure that it will matter. I believe there are various ways to derive the general casque location, e.g. from mapping overlays and the descriptions in the Verses. I highly doubt that there is a message in the window frames that says something like, "The exact coordinates for the casque are..." Yeah, i understand. No one image is going to be of any significance by itself, but at this point, I am just desperate to find something new, something we missed, a better translation and/or sequence to the verse. I think I have tried every filter and backlight to get something out of it that really does not help to much. I made the picture into a negative, took out prime colors, did the 3D effect...nothing! How about those water droplets? Some people have theories having to do with vectors, which I know nothing about. One of our partners out in Cali who is working with the SF puzzle (digging and probing) have made progress. Even theorizing that the "v" in the verse might stand for vector. Thoughts?

MrSeabass wrote:: Over the years I've tried just about every optical trick to reveal anything there. Gel filters, colorblindness filters, cross-eye, tiltshift/perception distortion - any accessible or hip technology from the 70's on up. Only thing I haven't done is UV light since I don't have the book, but I would assume that's been tested by now. And even then, we should have seen a hint of that type of reveal by now in any of the images. I printed the image and tried different lights, even UV, and nada.

Over the years I've tried just about every optical trick to reveal anything there. Gel filters, colorblindness filters, cross-eye, tiltshift/perception distortion - any accessible or hip technology from the 70's on up. Only thing I haven't done is UV light since I don't have the book, but I would assume that's been tested by now. And even then, we should have seen a hint of that type of reveal by now in any of the images.[/quote] I printed the image and tried different lights, even UV, and nada.[/quote] Well UV won't work unless you have the original print. You cant 'copy' UV ink.[/quote] And getting a hold of the original print is near impossible, so that is not an option. So what are popular theories on the water droplets? I also see on the lady's face under the nose and between the lips is a dividing shadow that seems intentional? Any thoughts?

After bouncing some stuff off my brain and a couple of other people, I have a good feeling about a couple of things. If we look at Image 12, the lady is a representation of Lady Liberty. You can also see a partial lion's face in her dress. When we put the two together, you get Lion of Liberty which is a reference to Patrick Henry, who famously said, "Give me Liberty, or Give me Death!". I went into more detail in the Verse 10 thread, but suffice to say that I believe that the verse: The natives still speak Of {him of Hard word in 3 Vols.} When we read it and study the construction of the sentence, means to substitute Patrick Henry in where the brackets are. Now, since the lion's face is incomplete, so is the name. In Brooklyn, there was a state senator named Patrick Henry McCarren (1849-1909). He was loved by the natives of Brooklyn. There is a park named after him, and a Russian Orthodox Church across the street from his park in the Greenpoint neighborhood. I still believe that the casque is in Prospect Park, however I think this truly grounds us in Brooklyn. See the Verse 10 thread for more background info.

gManTexas wrote:: After bouncing some stuff off my brain and a couple of other people, I have a good feeling about a couple of things. If we look at Image 12, the lady is a representation of Lady Liberty. You can also see a partial lion's face in her dress. When we put the two together, you get Lion of Liberty which is a reference to Patrick Henry, who famously said, "Give me Liberty, or Give me Death!". I went into more detail in the Verse 10 thread, but suffice to say that I believe that the verse: The natives still speak Of {him of Hard word in 3 Vols.} When we read it and study the construction of the sentence, means to substitute Patrick Henry in where the brackets are. Now, since the lion's face is incomplete, so is the name. In Brooklyn, there was a state senator named Patrick Henry McCarren (1849-1909). He was loved by the natives of Brooklyn. There is a park named after him, and a Russian Orthodox Church across the street from his park in the Greenpoint neighborhood. I still believe that the casque is in Prospect Park, however I think this truly grounds us in Brooklyn. See the Verse 10 thread for more background info. Also,might be good to give John Howard Payne a look up as well, when considering prospect. I found an amazing book on the history of Prospect park and Botanical gardens, since there have been statues and monuments that would have been there in the early 80's that are no longer there today.

As I see rhapsodic man as a directional clue, how does Payne help in that regard, unless we use the former statue location as a directional marker? Or should we use East Hampton perhaps?

gManTexas wrote:: As I see rhapsodic man as a directional clue, how does Payne help in that regard, unless we use the former statue location as a directional marker? I do not think Payne himself has much to do with anything. however, he is a prime example of the type of transformation the park has seen consistently. Whole statues have been stolen from the park or vandalized. Payne was taken down in the mid 70's but the base of the monument stood there until 2000. That part of the park was named Payne hill, not sure if it is anymore. So much research needs to be done in regards to what was happening there around the time the casques had been buried. And that brings up another important question... What is the time line between the book being produced/the creation of the paintings and verses, the casques being buried, and the books release in 1982? Since we do know that he placed markers that would not stand the test of time as well as local references of that time.

NYCNative wrote:: I do not think Payne himself has much to do with anything. however, he is a prime example of the type of transformation the park has seen consistently. Whole statues have been stolen from the park or vandalized. Payne was taken down in the mid 70's but the base of the monument stood there until 2000. That part of the park was named Payne hill, not sure if it is anymore. So much research needs to be done in regards to what was happening there around the time the casques had been buried. And that brings up another important question... What is the time line between the book being produced/the creation of the paintings and verses, the casques being buried, and the books release in 1982? Since we do know that he placed markers that would not stand the test of time as well as local references of that time. It was approximately 2 years.

gManTexas wrote:: It was approximately 2 years. Gracias senor. That helps!

I'm wondering if we should start a thread about the buildings/icons in each painting? With the Cleveland solve, we have--very definitively-- the colums, the wall, the fountain and the Terminal Tower. They are represented in an exact manner in the Cleveland Painting. With the Chicago solve, we have--very definitively--the water tower, the fence post with the arc, the Bowman statue. They are represented in an exact manner in the Chicago Painting. What do we have for New York? An illusion of the Statue of Liberty. Her face is not quite her face. Her hair is not her hair. We have blue turrets that might be a Russian church but there's not crosses as finials. We, kind of, have an Ellis Island Eagle? But just the face, with the body of a gull or duck and tail feathers that don't quite make sense. Thoughts?

MrSeabass wrote:: No because the forum is fragmented enough already. Agreed

karleen wrote:: I'm wondering if we should start a thread about the buildings/icons in each painting? With the Cleveland solve, we have--very definitively-- the colums, the wall, the fountain and the Terminal Tower. They are represented in an exact manner in the Cleveland Painting. With the Chicago solve, we have--very definitively--the water tower, the fence post with the arc, the Bowman statue. They are represented in an exact manner in the Chicago Painting. What do we have for New York? An illusion of the Statue of Liberty. Her face is not quite her face. Her hair is not her hair. We have blue turrets that might be a Russian church but there's not crosses as finials. We, kind of, have an Ellis Island Eagle? But just the face, with the body of a gull or duck and tail feathers that don't quite make sense. Thoughts? Okay, so we won't create a new thread, but we need to put our heads together on this one because IT. IS. DIFFICULT.

karleen wrote:: Okay, so we won't create a new thread, but we need to put our heads together on this one because IT. IS. DIFFICULT. Well, that's what we are doing.

I believe the onion domes in image 12 is, at face value, just the link between the image and the Russian lore of the book. On page 15 of the shorter book, below the passage that explains the Russian immigration to the West, is a picture of the actual characters, sailing with and onion dome behind them. I was hoping that perhaps the domes created an outline of some other hidden clue. I understand that the topaz puzzle would be more difficult, but nothing here but the SOL face is a given.

A topaz of the blue "frozen fire" variety may have been chosen for the blue and white colors of the Smolny Cathedral, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolny_Convent

https://imgur.com/a/YfSj8 thoughts on an image match?

NYCNative wrote:: https://imgur.com/a/YfSj8 thoughts on an image match? To what, that fighting wave Griffin? I don't really see a resemblance, but maybe if they were side by side it would pop out at me.

drunknerds wrote:: To what, that fighting wave Griffin? I don't really see a resemblance, but maybe if they were side by side it would pop out at me. That is my thought on it. I am not sure if I am being biased or it is what it is

What if you took the two hooves behind it, rotated them, then put them below the griffin head?

I'm sad this image wasn't on EU. Didn't JJP say they tried to do something with the circles that didn't translate to print? Would have been nice to get another shot at those three seemingly-unattainable clues

drunknerds wrote:: What if you took the two hooves behind it, rotated them, then put them below the griffin head? Possible...just impossible to say it is an exact match since the waves are so abstract. However, if this is a match it also strengthens my theory of the whirring sound in the summer.

I think this is what we are seeing. It's a pretty good match, even if it is abstract.

OH I SEE You are saying the whole thing matches. Not just the wave griffin, but the wake in front of it as well is another match for the horizontal dragon. Now it's looking a lot more plausible to my always-doubting eyes. Are the four vertical dots in the image there also in the merry go round thing? For me those oddly even dots have always seemed like the key

Can someone with the actual book try a couple of things? I think we need to hold the page to a mirror at an angle until the water swirls "straightens out". I believe there are letters in there. I tried with puppet warp in Photoshop, but I want to see if you can see this stuff in an old fashioned mirror trick. When I print the image with my inkjet, it looks like garbage. There's also the following: 74, 41(reversed), and then a 73 in the wave. This gives us the coordinates, not that it matters at this point.

Gman, interesting thought with this photo. I'm going to givet Hat a further look. Has anyone ever discussed the meaning of the 3 water drops floating with the jewel? I've seen a mention of someone theorizing smaller islands but nothing more. Has everyone just accepted that interpretation?

Good luck

The Secret by Byron Preiss (New York) it is a closed fb page sorry for that https://www.facebook.com/groups/2029208 ... oup_header

lost wrote:: The Secret by Byron Preiss (New York) it is a closed fb page sorry for that https://www.facebook.com/groups/2029208 ... oup_header the main page The Secret: A Treasure Hunt Byron Preiss https://www.facebook.com/groups/1669016820051443/ links you to the others 10 groups ie ny....

drunknerds wrote:: Don't forget, PReiss said "there is not a cask in central park." So the bear must be something else. Hopefully it's some sort of clue and "bear" or "music" or "clock" are what we should take from that. But really it's probably like that Chicago Dryad fountain, and is just a really hidden way of saying "yeah, NY." Sigh. Oh I did not forget, that is why I emphasis this makes no sense. Your logic is saying that JPP used a random statue, in a park that is not the casque site (nor does it seem to have anything to do with it) to confirm that you are in the right city? As if anyone not familiar with the statue would stumble upon it somehow, see it and have a confirmation that it is new york? I think the SOL face and the 74 alone are your confirmations that it is NYC. you forget that in Chicago, the monuments used was all within a route to the casque. Plus you have to ignore the rest of the wave to try to make that dancing bear fit. I think you are reaching hard to make this fit, when it just doesn't. Nothing supports it but your assumption that JPP put the hidden image there to confirm NYC, for at least the 3rd time. I do not think he was that repetitive especially when more essential clues had to be placed in the image for a more specific location then just general NYC.

drunknerds wrote:: Don't forget, PReiss said "there is not a cask in central park ." So the bear must be something else. Hopefully it's some sort of clue and "bear" or "music" or "clock" are what we should take from that. But really it's probably like that Chicago Dryad fountain, and is just a really hidden way of saying "yeah, NY." Sigh. Oh I did not forget, that is why I emphasis this makes no sense. Your logic is saying that JPP used a random statue, in a park that is not the casque site (nor does it seem to have anything to do with it) to confirm that you are in the right city? As if anyone not familiar with the statue would stumble upon it somehow, see it and have a confirmation that it is new york? I think the SOL face and the 74 alone are your confirmations that it is NYC. you forget that in Chicago, the monuments used was all within a route to the casque. Plus you have to ignore the rest of the wave to try to make that dancing bear fit. I think you are reaching hard to make this fit, when it just doesn't. Nothing supports it but your assumption that JPP put the hidden image there to confirm NYC, for at least the 3rd time. I do not think he was that repetitive especially when more essential clues had to be placed in the image for a more specific location then just general NYC.

NYCNative wrote:: Oh I did not forget, that is why I emphasis this makes no sense. Your logic is saying that JPP used a random statue, in a park that is not the casque site (nor does it seem to have anything to do with it) to confirm that you are in the right city? As if anyone not familiar with the statue would stumble upon it somehow, see it and have a confirmation that it is new york? I think the SOL face and the 74 alone are your confirmations that it is NYC. you forget that in Chicago, the monuments used was all within a route to the casque. Plus you have to ignore the rest of the wave to try to make that dancing bear fit. I think you are reaching hard to make this fit, when it just doesn't. Nothing supports it but your assumption that JPP put the hidden image there to confirm NYC, for at least the 3rd time. I do not think he was that repetitive especially when more essential clues had to be placed in the image for a more specific location then just general NYC. Growth mentality, my friend. M and B should be the only people set in stone on this solve. I too love passionate discourse and people having strong opinions, but there's a way to share them that does't derail the entire thread. I too agree that it is absurd and utterly pointless to use a random statue as a landmark for a huge city, but that seems to be what Preiss did. From two-inch-tall legeaters to Milwaukee hair sculptures, BP has repeatedly shown a frustrating inability to link the visibility of a clue to its proximity to the dig site If you look at it from a flexible perspective, rather than assuming you have the complete answer and everyone else is wrong, then you won't do stuff like force the odd notion that the clues for cask 5 follow a route to the casque, when BP himself said the second to last line of the verse ("brush") refers to a building half a mile away from the dig site. Remember, both solves were made through trial and error, and amended solves between multiple parties communicating. This site needs a lot more back and forth, and a lot less condescension (which has no place in a discussion between grown-ups), if it is to ever yield another solution. Personally, I blame the wiki for speaking in a black-and-white, definitive manner for most of the inflexibility coming into this hunt. Haha, just yesterday I saw this in a comment on the wiki for New York (which brings this discussion back on topic): Can someone please explain exactly which tree we currently think this casque is located at? I don’t want to go digging, I just am confused because there seems to be quite a bit of debate.

NYCNative wrote:: Oh I did not forget, that is why I emphasis this makes no sense. Your logic is saying that JPP used a random statue, in a park that is not the casque site (nor does it seem to have anything to do with it) to confirm that you are in the right city? As if anyone not familiar with the statue would stumble upon it somehow, see it and have a confirmation that it is new york? I think the SOL face and the 74 alone are your confirmations that it is NYC. you forget that in Chicago, the monuments used was all within a route to the casque. Plus you have to ignore the rest of the wave to try to make that dancing bear fit. I think you are reaching hard to make this fit, when it just doesn't. Nothing supports it but your assumption that JPP put the hidden image there to confirm NYC, for at least the 3rd time. I do not think he was that repetitive especially when more essential clues had to be placed in the image for a more specific location then just general NYC. Growth mentality, my friend. M and B should be the only people set in stone on this solve. I too love passionate discourse and people having strong opinions, but there's a way to share them that does't derail the entire thread. I too agree that it is absurd and utterly pointless to use a random statue as a landmark for a huge city, but that seems to be what Preiss did. From two-inch-tall legeaters to Milwaukee hair sculptures, BP has repeatedly shown a frustrating inability to link the visibility of a clue to its proximity to the dig site If you look at it from a flexible perspective, rather than assuming you have the complete answer and everyone else is wrong, then you won't do stuff like force the odd notion that the clues for cask 5 follow a route to the casque, when BP himself said the second to last line of the verse ("brush") refers to a building half a mile away from the dig site. Remember, both solves were made through trial and error, and amended solves between multiple parties communicating. This site needs a lot more back and forth, and a lot less condescension (which has no place in a discussion between grown-ups), if it is to ever yield another solution. Personally, I blame the wiki for speaking in a black-and-white, definitive manner for most of the inflexibility coming into this hunt. Haha, just yesterday I saw this in a comment on the wiki for New York (which brings this discussion back on topic): Can someone please explain exactly which tree we currently think this casque is located at? I don’t want to go digging, I just am confused because there seems to be quite a bit of debate.